Wales wants to punish lying politicians – how would it work?
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
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These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
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While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
[...]
These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
[...]
While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
Now all you need to do is prove that it was deliberate. Good luck with that. "Oh I forgot XYZ"
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Now all you need to do is prove that it was deliberate. Good luck with that. "Oh I forgot XYZ"
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice…
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
[...]
These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
[...]
While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
Sounds like a good idea in theory that would not work in practice, or even worse, would be weaponzied politically. But maybe I’m just cynical due to the current state of world politics.
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
[...]
These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
[...]
While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements.
I'm all for this. No, it won't be perfect. Yes, it will sometimes be abused (e.g. against opponents). But this needs to be enshrined in law: politicians must be held to a higher set of moral standards while in office. Sometimes it feels like reality is the exact opposite: every job requires this, except politics.
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
[...]
These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
[...]
While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
How can you tell a politician is lying?
The lips are moving
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Now all you need to do is prove that it was deliberate. Good luck with that. "Oh I forgot XYZ"
Then they have to formally retract their statement. Do it enough times and the pattern becomes clear.
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legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements.
I'm all for this. No, it won't be perfect. Yes, it will sometimes be abused (e.g. against opponents). But this needs to be enshrined in law: politicians must be held to a higher set of moral standards while in office. Sometimes it feels like reality is the exact opposite: every job requires this, except politics.
I share the sentiment but I'm terrified of what that means.
Now there's people documenting facts and polititians saying stuff, sometimes cherry picking, sometimes lying to get an advantage.
If you tie the two you will bring this pressure primarily onto the documentation of facts themselves.
You would get (even more) fake paper for fake research, no more journalist on the ground, officer making statement that contradicts reality.
I mean, even more than what you do have today.
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Now all you need to do is prove that it was deliberate. Good luck with that. "Oh I forgot XYZ"
I don't know how it works for public lies, but sometimes the action can be juged regardless of the intention. A lie based on "honest mistake" but with bad consequences could be condemnable negligence or something like this.
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Then they have to formally retract their statement. Do it enough times and the pattern becomes clear.
Yeah, force them to fund with their own money a marketing campaign with specified outreach or certain length to specified media (TV, internet, print, etc) for a specified amount of time that lists what they said and what they were wrong about.
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Yeah, force them to fund with their own money a marketing campaign with specified outreach or certain length to specified media (TV, internet, print, etc) for a specified amount of time that lists what they said and what they were wrong about.
Even just maintaining an "I was wrong" section on a website with an exhaustive list. And then they must print it out at election time and distribute to all voters.
Unfortunately, they real issue is that "I dont recall" will become the default response to all questions...
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Now all you need to do is prove that it was deliberate. Good luck with that. "Oh I forgot XYZ"
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Even just maintaining an "I was wrong" section on a website with an exhaustive list. And then they must print it out at election time and distribute to all voters.
Unfortunately, they real issue is that "I dont recall" will become the default response to all questions...
Unfortunately, they real issue is that "I dont recall" will become the default response to all questions...
"I don't recall" doesn't get voters, though, so they'll need to figure something out.
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Unfortunately, they real issue is that "I dont recall" will become the default response to all questions...
"I don't recall" doesn't get voters, though, so they'll need to figure something out.
It does work if you have a personality cult and can get others to lie for you though...
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How can you tell a politician is lying?
The lips are moving
"all politicians are bad" is a narrative that makes everyone vote for the lesser of two evils, instead of the candidate who actually represents them
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Elected politicians and candidates in Wales who deliberately lie could face serious consequences, including being removed from office, under proposals aimed at restoring trust in politics.
The Senedd’s (Welsh parliament) standards of conduct committee has recommended legally defining political deception, and strengthening existing rules to explicitly ban misleading statements. Proposed potential penalties range from a formal retraction to suspension or, in extreme cases, recall by voters.
[...]
These efforts see Wales become the first UK nation to attempt to tackle the problem of dwindling trust in politics by modern day legislative force.
Those championing the changes refer to how the deliberate rise in campaigns of misinformation, by those of all political persuasions, have in some instances led to electoral victories overseas.
The need to act is also reflected in the public’s perception. Surveys have consistently found that trust in politicians to tell the truth has declined. A survey in 2023 placed politicians as the least trusted profession in the UK. Just 9% of the public said they trusted elected officials to tell the truth.
More recently, findings from the British social attitudes report in 2024 revealed that the public is as critical now of how the UK is governed as it has ever been. A record high of 45% of respondents said they now “almost never” trust governments of any party to place the needs of the nation above the interests of their own political party.
[...]
While, research had found that more than two-thirds of Welsh voters supported a law criminalising political lying, judicial adjudication for serving Senedd members has been ruled out. The report [opens pdf] also details concerns from the legal professions that existing resource pressures on the courts would have lead to long disputes, rather than the swift resolutions.
But in reality, we are talking about strengthening safeguards for maintaining standards in public offices. In particular addressing deliberate mistruths by politicians to secure deceitful advantages during an election.
In that sense, the new legislation is essentially bringing the political profession in line with others such as lawyers, doctors, journalistic and financial institutions, by having clearer repercussions when they lie and fail to maintain professional standards.
Given the need for something to change in order to restore trust, and the extensive powers that politicians have to affect the lives of citizens, it is clear why Wales is trying a different approach towards restoring trust.
I expect some kind of knotted rope would do the trick.
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"all politicians are bad" is a narrative that makes everyone vote for the lesser of two evils, instead of the candidate who actually represents them
You're taking a joke too seriously
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I share the sentiment but I'm terrified of what that means.
Now there's people documenting facts and polititians saying stuff, sometimes cherry picking, sometimes lying to get an advantage.
If you tie the two you will bring this pressure primarily onto the documentation of facts themselves.
You would get (even more) fake paper for fake research, no more journalist on the ground, officer making statement that contradicts reality.
I mean, even more than what you do have today.
It can be tied, at least, to discourse about policies, to "campaign promises".
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You're taking a joke too seriously
its more than a joke, I have met many people (usually of my parents generation) who parrot this verbatim without any wink of humor
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It can be tied, at least, to discourse about policies, to "campaign promises".
In this limited scope it could be more feasible but the weirdness there stems from the fact that... The system is meant for people to... Stop voting for those that betray you?
