Scientists prove that fish suffer "intense pain" for at least 10 minutes after catch, calls made for reforms
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Can you ethically kill your dog when they want to live?
You can make fish alternatives with carrots, tofu, jackfruit, seitan, oyster king mushrooms, chickpeas, tempeh, anti choke.
https://proveg.com/uk/fish-alternatives-10-vegan-substitutes-to-fish-caviar-and-other-seafood/
there is no evidence non-human animals understand personal mortality. we can't say they want to live, since there's no evidence they understand that they themselves are living or could die.
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The 2 trillion figure is the minimum: it could be more than 6 trillion every year, and the elephant in the room is that more than half of those are factory farmed - which means humans are responsible for torturing them their entire lives.
"for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka" - Isaac Bashevis Singer
being farmed isn't torture.
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you can't kill ethically a fish, cow, pig, dog, etc.
sometimes there are "humane" times you have to kill, for some reason, another animal, because they are really suffering and it's impossible to bring them to health.
anything else, is unnecessary.There are a lot of alternatives for a plant based diet, and being healthy, you have to be informed to know what to eat, and with which thing combine it (rice and beans, together, are a complete protein).
there is tofu, seitan, different types of grains and legumes that are protein complete or that you can complete between themyou can’t kill ethically a fish, cow, pig, dog, etc.
i think it's amoral
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there is no evidence non-human animals understand personal mortality. we can't say they want to live, since there's no evidence they understand that they themselves are living or could die.
Oh yes let’s ignore the fact that fish intentionally avoid being eaten in the ocean. I smell concern trolling, intentionally making false claims as if they were “the absolute truth.”
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Edit: CW Don’t read if you don’t want descriptions of death of fish
Different ethical systems presume different things. That aside, I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering. So it you’re going to fish, there are ways to minimise suffering of catch. It really depends your setup. But obviously the number one thing is do everything in your power to only catch things you will eat. Secondly, when you do catch something, don’t let it asyphixiate slowly to death. You can do a clean cut around the gill arches or the caudal artery. Which will hit the main veines and drop blood pressure to the brain really quick (very very quick death), this is also useful because then the fish bleeds out which prevents blood pooling in the meat from turning it rotten. Some people prefer to stun the fish before any cutting at all, so the first thing they will do, is hit something hard on the fish’s head which will immediately render it unconscious, then cut the arteries.
The whole asphyxiation to death is really the worst because it takes many many minutes and fish go through things like lungs collapsing and blood clotting which bring immense pain before being unconscious.
I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering.
that's just not true. the only ethical system i know of that holds this axiom is utilitarianism, and that is fraught with issues from epistemics to the fact it can be summarized "the ends justify the means"
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Ah so stepping on kittens is the same thing as stepping on grass. Great logic…
this isn't what they said
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Oh yes let’s ignore the fact that fish intentionally avoid being eaten in the ocean. I smell concern trolling, intentionally making false claims as if they were “the absolute truth.”
if you can point me to an animal behavioral-cognition study that shows any non-human animal understands personal mortality, i'd love to read it. all the studies i have found that get close to talking about it go out of their way to point out they don't have evidence of it.
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you can’t kill ethically a fish, cow, pig, dog, etc.
i think it's amoral
Just like it's amoral to kill ethically a dog and a cat.
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Just like it's amoral to kill ethically a dog and a cat.
in most circumstances, probably.
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Come on, you can do better.
On the wikipedia page you linked, there is exactly zero occurrence of the word "pain".
The only part that could remotely be linked to your previous argument does not indicate pain at all.The GLVs responsible for the smell of freshly cut grass play a role in plant communication and plant defence against herbivory, functioning as a distress signal warning other plants of imminent danger and, in some instances, as a way to attract predators of grass-eating insects.
This paragraph is a less sensational and more serious reformulation of the source material, an opinion piece stating the following without a single scientific reference
Trauma, that’s what. It’s the smell of chemical defenses and first aid. The fresh, “green” scent of a just-mowed lawn is the lawn trying to save itself from the injury you just inflicted.
This piece was posted in May 2012 on mentalfloss.com, so not really a scientific study.
Also, nothing in there speaks of the brocoli, which you first referred to.
Edit: spelling, formatting
Nothing in either comment speaks about pain either, just screams. I only posted the wikipedia link because it referenced the numerous articles about this well established phenomenon. I didn't realize I was defending a doctoral thesis here. Y'all are fucking toxic.
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I think the most universal thing is to minimise suffering.
that's just not true. the only ethical system i know of that holds this axiom is utilitarianism, and that is fraught with issues from epistemics to the fact it can be summarized "the ends justify the means"
Stop abusing animals and do better. Eating animals is wrong, unhealthy and horrible for the environment. Stop making excuses for your nonsense.
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Stop abusing animals and do better. Eating animals is wrong, unhealthy and horrible for the environment. Stop making excuses for your nonsense.
Stop abusing animals
i don't, and your accusation is not appropriate.
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being farmed isn't torture.
I beg to differ.
https://awionline.org/content/inhumane-practices-factory-farms
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torture means that pain/distressed are caused intentionally. like beating someone so they give up information. that's not the case in farming. sometimes, animals are caused pain or distress, but the point of the activity is not to cause it. if a farmer could raise their livestock and never cause them any pain or distress for the same cost, i'm sure they would. the pain is incidental, not intentional. it's not torture. qed.
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Stop abusing animals
i don't, and your accusation is not appropriate.
I think it's appropriate given your blase attitude towards the suffering non-human animals.
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Stop abusing animals
i don't, and your accusation is not appropriate.
Yet you belittle the animals at every chance you get, someone wouldn't go through all the trouble of doing that if they didn't care about their image reflecting poorly to their peers. You do everything you can to hold yourself and humanity back rather than admit you're wrong and owe up to your mistakes. Such a poor character without substance. Drop the gaslighting and animal products now!
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Maypull is not worth talking to. They're defending the cruel multi-billion dollar animal agriculture system no matter the cost to the animals, the environment and the workers.
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Can we solve human suffering first? Not saying this isn't important... just that it's kind of hypocritical to shift the focus away from the "hard" stuff, to something "easier".
Any critique of capitalism that ignores this aspect of exploitation is bullshit.
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torture means that pain/distressed are caused intentionally. like beating someone so they give up information. that's not the case in farming. sometimes, animals are caused pain or distress, but the point of the activity is not to cause it. if a farmer could raise their livestock and never cause them any pain or distress for the same cost, i'm sure they would. the pain is incidental, not intentional. it's not torture. qed.
trolling or just willfully ignorant?
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torture means that pain/distressed are caused intentionally. like beating someone so they give up information. that's not the case in farming. sometimes, animals are caused pain or distress, but the point of the activity is not to cause it. if a farmer could raise their livestock and never cause them any pain or distress for the same cost, i'm sure they would. the pain is incidental, not intentional. it's not torture. qed.
yeah, killing the animals so you can consume their flesh, after all their lives being in a enclosed space designed to maximise the profits, isn't bad or torture for the animals.
the bad things happening to them from that life is just a byproduct of wanting to use their corpses for other things, so it can be considered torture, right?it doesn't matter what is the explicit or direct intent, they are being abused, mistreated and tortured, just for personal and human gain.
you can torture other people physically, emotionally or psychologicaly without it being the direct intent for your actions, but the torture will still be there.
