French President Macron says France will recognize Palestine as a state
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some of us are already anarchists.
I'm sure. So?
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However, wars still happened before the introduction of borders
The concept of borders did not exist yet but the earliest wars was definitely about territories control for accessing more natural resources . It's basically the same
This implies that the resources the people of Nataruk had at the time were valuable and worth fighting for, whether it was water, dried meat or fish, gathered nuts or indeed women and children. This shows that two of the conditions associated with warfare among settled societies—control of territory and resources— were probably the same for these hunter-gatherers, and that we have underestimated their role in prehistory.
Yes, of course. However, look at even ancient Greece, and legends of war for troy about love. The concept is older than the concept of countries. War is always about resource allocation, of you include people as a resource, which they are on a societal level. The designation of borders and countries is also partly about resource allocation.
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They are inter-subjective realities. As opposed to subjective realities - the sky looks blue to me - and objective realities - the sky is blue because of the refraction of light and varies in color due to atmospheric conditions.
Realities nonetheless.
Laws exist because we say they do. Society and people follow patterns because of these laws. Abolishing these laws and borders would lead to societal breakdown without an alternative system to replace them.
Families are also constructs, borne of genetic reproduction. however we now understand them to include marriage and adoption and blended families. All constructs. All legalized also.
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Send troops to stop the fucking genocide!
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Are you out of touch?
Since France has at no point paid reparations to Haiti to my knowledge, no I don't think so.
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Not recognizing states that obviously exist is extremely silly.
Not recognizing would mean to not have any treaties with them, no general Visa rules, to limit trade, obviously no weapons shipments, denying port for any ships delivering arms to a non state actor...
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Too late dipshits.
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state held responsible? PEOPLE, individuals, yes. People who are running that terrorist shitshow. Members of various places around the world. And yes. That includes a lot of people. Sanctions on a state never work. People need prison. for crimes against humanity.
Stop pretending it is ok that israel exist as a recognized nation; it is younger than some of the people still living there!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]So there are two interpretations I could make of your comment, one of which is more charitable than the other.
- You are using the Chinese and Israeli playbook of weaponizing statehood recognition as a value judgement. That is profoundly problematic, both on a practical and a philosophical level. De-humanization should not be a tool we have to use on our enemies. Our moral high ground should speak for itself.
- Your are dog-whistling for the genocide and/or deportation of all Israelis. In which case our conversation is done here.
To be clear, Israel is committing genocide and every single member of its government and of the IDF should be tried at The Hague. But laws and international order exist for a reason, and trying to circumvent them like this is a very bad look that Israel has been rightfully criticized for for decades.
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No, I’d rather see them abolished. But they do exist, and allowing the US or Europe to decide which ones are acknowledged is a big problem in today’s world.
People who exercise their own autonomy should have that autonomy acknowledged. Full stop. Pretending it doesn’t exist is harmful, even if that autonomy is being used to hurt people.
Israel may have been a mistake in 1947 but there is no point in not recognizing them. They are there, they exist, you can't undo what happened in 47.
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I am saying that this is Macron inching away from the genocidal chorus towards the side trying to do something
Congrats you got fooled, that's exactly what Israel and macron want you to believeTHE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
Paris, July 24, 2025
Mr. President,
By letter dated June 9, 2025, you informed France and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia of the will of the Palestinian Authority to put an end to the war in Gaza with a view to achieving just and lasting peace in the region, while strongly reaffirming its support for the implementation of the two-state solution. You condemned the terrorist attacks of October 7, 2023, and called for the immediate release of hostages held by Hamas, advocated the disarmament of Hamas, and its withdrawal from the governance of Gaza. You highlighted the commitment of the Palestinian Authority to fully assume its responsibilities in all Palestinian territories, including Gaza, to undergo deep reforms, and to organize presidential and legislative elections in 2026 in order to strengthen its legitimacy and authority over the future Palestinian State, which you emphasized should not be militarized.
I commend these courageous commitments and, in return, I inform you of France's mobilization in favor of the implementation of the two-state solution, with Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security. This solution constitutes the only path that can respond to the legitimate aspirations of Israelis as well as Palestinians. We must now achieve it as quickly as possible.
Civilian populations have paid an unbearable price during the terrorist attacks of October 7 by Hamas and during the war pursued by Israel in Gaza. At the same time, the prospect of a negotiated solution to the conflict in the Middle East seems to be receding. I do not accept this.
His Excellency Mr. Mahmoud ABBAS
President of the Palestinian AuthorityNo condemnation of Israel occupation , blaming everything on Hamas and asking demilitarization without providing zero security guarantees, yet you think macron is genuine about recognizing Palestine and about Palestinians living in peace
You don't need to flood a comment thread with the same copy/pasta over and over.
Keeping this one as the original, removing the others.
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So there are two interpretations I could make of your comment, one of which is more charitable than the other.
- You are using the Chinese and Israeli playbook of weaponizing statehood recognition as a value judgement. That is profoundly problematic, both on a practical and a philosophical level. De-humanization should not be a tool we have to use on our enemies. Our moral high ground should speak for itself.
- Your are dog-whistling for the genocide and/or deportation of all Israelis. In which case our conversation is done here.
To be clear, Israel is committing genocide and every single member of its government and of the IDF should be tried at The Hague. But laws and international order exist for a reason, and trying to circumvent them like this is a very bad look that Israel has been rightfully criticized for for decades.
where do I mention a people should not exist? never.
the state itself was created by a group knowing full well they would need genocide to make their state. they call it, these days, “mowing the lawn.” the criminals need prison and the working class people who just want peace deserve it. in Palestine.
the tricky part of these convos is not conflating the nation state, israel with the Jewish people. Or zionism with the Jewish people. Or the state israel with the followers of Israel.
hope that helped.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
Unironically, admitting Israel, Palestine and Lebanon into the European Union might actually be the solution to this whole fucking clusterfuck.
Edit: major major reforms should take place of course, and Israel should dismantle apartheid and pay reparations, while Lebanon should dismantle the sectarian dysfunction of their government, but as a long term horizon this region needs the wildly successful EU model of peaceful pacification more than any other region in the world.
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No, I’d rather see them abolished. But they do exist, and allowing the US or Europe to decide which ones are acknowledged is a big problem in today’s world.
People who exercise their own autonomy should have that autonomy acknowledged. Full stop. Pretending it doesn’t exist is harmful, even if that autonomy is being used to hurt people.
Pretending it doesn’t exist is harmful, even if that autonomy is being used to hurt people.
What? What is this "pretending"? What do you think we're talking about? And what makes pretending Israel isn't a state, if that's what you understood being said, harmful?
I’d rather see them abolished
That's what we're talking about. Let's abolish Israel, and create a new state for all the people, historically we'd call that Palestine, but I'm okay with coming up with a new name.
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Israel may have been a mistake in 1947 but there is no point in not recognizing them. They are there, they exist, you can't undo what happened in 47.
Of course we can. We can stop funding them financially and militarily, we can stop doing business with them, and we can refuse their citizens travel, until they stop genocide and end apartheid.
You're pretending like this isn't common place already, it's just unfathomable that it can happen to Israel for some reason?
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Unironically, admitting Israel, Palestine and Lebanon into the European Union might actually be the solution to this whole fucking clusterfuck.
Edit: major major reforms should take place of course, and Israel should dismantle apartheid and pay reparations, while Lebanon should dismantle the sectarian dysfunction of their government, but as a long term horizon this region needs the wildly successful EU model of peaceful pacification more than any other region in the world.
I doubt that would ever happen anyway, but Britain and Ireland were both in the EU for a long time before they actually struck a peace deal in the Good Friday Agreement.
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Unironically, admitting Israel, Palestine and Lebanon into the European Union might actually be the solution to this whole fucking clusterfuck.
Edit: major major reforms should take place of course, and Israel should dismantle apartheid and pay reparations, while Lebanon should dismantle the sectarian dysfunction of their government, but as a long term horizon this region needs the wildly successful EU model of peaceful pacification more than any other region in the world.
Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, […].
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
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Of course we can. We can stop funding them financially and militarily, we can stop doing business with them, and we can refuse their citizens travel, until they stop genocide and end apartheid.
You're pretending like this isn't common place already, it's just unfathomable that it can happen to Israel for some reason?
That has nothing to do with "stop recognizing them as a country" and the west loses more by not allowing citizens travel (because people wouldn't be able to go to holy sites, it works both way).
And man, the EU can't even properly sanction Russia, do you really think they care about the middle east at all? Specially when not even the countries around care about Palestina.
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Since France has at no point paid reparations to Haiti to my knowledge, no I don't think so.
Are you talking about Napaleon? I genuinely do not understand what century are you living in, because modern France never invaded Haiti and houthis are not legal body of Haiti.
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I am not speaking of a “they”, but of a “what.”
israel is a group of invasive terrorists who, for almost a century now, or more depending on inclusion of zionism, have invaded a land that was already a nation on its own and already recognized by the world.
Isn't a group a "they" and not a "what". Israel is a nation of people who sees themselves as Israeli. Entire generations are born there and consider that land their home. You can't be born a terrorist.
It's possible in the future to build some kinda secular Haifa Republic but this war has made that an incredibly utopian prospect.
It's not clear what position you advocate except the continuation of war.
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Too late dipshits.
How can it be too late if he didn't do it, but just planned to do it sometimes later… wait…
