Multiliguists of Lemmy - When speaking Language A and using a word from Language B how do you decide which pronunciation to use?
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These wrong loanwords are always so weird! German has a ton of those, e.g. "trainer" is a coach, and "handy" is a cellphone. Add all the false friends because of the similar origins of German and English (even the latin-derived words often have completely different meanings) and it becomes a huge mess to untangle when you're learning English as a native German speaker or vice versa.
“Trainer” probably would work just fine in US English but I can see what it wouldn’t with British English. Of course that only makes things more complicated…
“Handy” definitely does not work in U.S. English especially using it as a noun
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Definitely serious. Loanwords fall all across the spectrum regarding how much they’re integrated from their source language into the “local” language and most folks don’t know or care about word etymologies enough to even consider it. If you’re not native there’s a good chance you’re mispronouncing loanwords even when you’re trying to use their native pronunciation.
Loanwords are a different story. I would argue those are part of both languages at that point. Burrito is an English word and a Spanish word. As I see it, anyway.
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Do you speak multiple languages?
Yes, I speak English and Spanish
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Do you pronounce borrowed French words the way they should be correctly pronounced in everyday settings?
Like this video: https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ
If I can. My sentiments do not apply to “loan words”. Those are a different category in my opinion. And there are some French words I struggle with, tbh.
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It’s kind hard to write clearly in print about how we pronounce things, huh?
English is also kinda especially bad for this. There's always IPA if you want to be correct but really confuse most readers ...
Instructions unclear: Had a beer, still not great at putting my accent(s) into print.
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Instructions unclear: Had a beer, still not great at putting my accent(s) into print.
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…By how well known the word is by the people I speak to. English is usually not an issue. Germans speak english quite well. Languages' Common phrases like yes, no, thank you are also often known.
So I pronounce these as a native speaker would.When ordering food? It's a fine line when I don't speak the language myself. I.E. ordering spanish couisine but not knowing spanish. I try not to butcher the pronunciation, but trying to lean into it would feel pretentious and awkward to me.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Honestly it's mostly unconscious for me, the brain just does it's thing sometimes.
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As a funny aside I was serving a restaurant patron the other day who was Spanish-only. The restaurant I wait tables at is Mediterranean cuisine, and I stumbled because I couldn't remember how to say "falafel" in Spanish.
I just stopped in the middle of a sentence for what felt like a minute but was probably only a handful of seconds before I realized the word I wanted was "falafel": It's not an English word originally and I didn't need to translate it at all.
I was surprised by seeing “ñoqui” on a menu and realizing I actually knew what it was.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…wrote last edited by [email protected]You use the one of the language you're currently speaking, of course.
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I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent.
Speaking German with a German accent? What?
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if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent.
Speaking German with a German accent? What?
German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
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German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word. And Song with a "k" at the end? That's just not a word. Are you saying Zonk?
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I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word. And Song with a "k" at the end? That's just not a word. Are you saying Zonk?
It’s called Auslautverhärtung, and it makes Germans cringe when I do it on a word like song, but if I want to use it correctly on a word like Verhärtung, I’ve got to use it on the word song.
I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word.
Again, long i, trilled r, and voiced s. You can call it translation if you want.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I'm French and get mocked for saying sweatshirt instead of sweetshirt (as French do)...
It's a real conundrum. -
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
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I'm French and get mocked for saying sweatshirt instead of sweetshirt (as French do)...
It's a real conundrum.France is the absolute worst for this. I once spent ten minutes in a bar trying to figure out who 'Kenny West' was... I kept asking my friends if they're sure that's how the name is pronounced.
It was Kanye. He even says his name in most of his own songs...
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Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
That’s a great way to put it, though sometimes I run into situations where I know some of my audience will understand language A and not B and some will understand B but not A.
I always end up just freezing; it’s like my brain is rebooting or something.
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Honestly it's mostly unconscious for me, the brain just does it's thing sometimes.
I’m so jealous.
Part of the reason I asked is because I want to get to this point so badly but my brain just freezes whenever I’m unsure of everyone in the audience’s understanding of both languages
🫣