Multiliguists of Lemmy - When speaking Language A and using a word from Language B how do you decide which pronunciation to use?
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…wrote last edited by [email protected]You use the one of the language you're currently speaking, of course.
-
I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent.
Speaking German with a German accent? What?
-
if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent.
Speaking German with a German accent? What?
German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
-
German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word. And Song with a "k" at the end? That's just not a word. Are you saying Zonk?
-
I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word. And Song with a "k" at the end? That's just not a word. Are you saying Zonk?
It’s called Auslautverhärtung, and it makes Germans cringe when I do it on a word like song, but if I want to use it correctly on a word like Verhärtung, I’ve got to use it on the word song.
I'm German and I have no idea how to pronounce "Microsoft" with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German "mikro" at the beginning? But that's not an accent, that's translating half a word.
Again, long i, trilled r, and voiced s. You can call it translation if you want.
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I'm French and get mocked for saying sweatshirt instead of sweetshirt (as French do)...
It's a real conundrum. -
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
-
I'm French and get mocked for saying sweatshirt instead of sweetshirt (as French do)...
It's a real conundrum.France is the absolute worst for this. I once spent ten minutes in a bar trying to figure out who 'Kenny West' was... I kept asking my friends if they're sure that's how the name is pronounced.
It was Kanye. He even says his name in most of his own songs...
-
Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
That’s a great way to put it, though sometimes I run into situations where I know some of my audience will understand language A and not B and some will understand B but not A.
I always end up just freezing; it’s like my brain is rebooting or something.
-
Honestly it's mostly unconscious for me, the brain just does it's thing sometimes.
I’m so jealous.
Part of the reason I asked is because I want to get to this point so badly but my brain just freezes whenever I’m unsure of everyone in the audience’s understanding of both languages
🫣 -
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Generally, if I know there is a common loan word, then I say it in the language I am speaking (burrito is close enough for example), otherwise I try to say it in the native language and native intonation (quesadilla = kesadi-ya). I generally try to see what will be the most understanding.
With people's names I will try to default to their native version, but once I know them for a while I'll get if they seem to prefer the English or imported version. I'll start with O-ka-mu-ra for example with proper Japanese intonation and cadence, but if they like the bouncy American style of pronunciation Oke-a-moo-rah better then I'll use that. A 2nd generation Japanese-American for instance might be more familiar with the latter. Conversely, a name like George/Jorge, I'll say George in other languages but if they like Joーji (Japanese) or Hor-hey (Spanish) better I'll move to that regardless of what language I'm speaking.
-
I’m so jealous.
Part of the reason I asked is because I want to get to this point so badly but my brain just freezes whenever I’m unsure of everyone in the audience’s understanding of both languages
🫣If that's what you're facing, maybe try thinking of it like you're trying to get to know them a little. If you start talking about say, your recent effort to make sambal oelek for use in say noodles, asking if they're familiar with the name, talk about how it has some origin in French cooking from the colonial period, add some info about how you like to use it etc.
Like if I'm ordering food, I'll always go for the full pronunciation, then maybe follow up with the server or whoever asking if it's the dish with this or that main focus.
I also love having fun with themed dinner parties with friends and the such, give full presentation on the pronunciation, it's history in different areas that make it slightly different, give everyone a copy of the recipe (minus a few key but subtle ingredients lol) in both the original language and English.
All in all I say just try to make it a chance to be enjoyed one way or another and it doesn't take long to get your confidence flowing lol. I totally empathize, I used to be absolutely mortified about the same thing, still do sometimes, just less so these days.
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Whichever way I learned it first.
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I attempt to change to the pronunciation of the original language of that word
-
That’s a great way to put it, though sometimes I run into situations where I know some of my audience will understand language A and not B and some will understand B but not A.
I always end up just freezing; it’s like my brain is rebooting or something.
There's pretty much always time to explain yourself if someone doesn't understand. You could say it the first way that comes to mind, then pause and say it the second way. It doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to communicate. Sometimes you have to use your hands and feet, and that's OK too.
-
The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Depends on the language being used and who I'm talking to
-
There's pretty much always time to explain yourself if someone doesn't understand. You could say it the first way that comes to mind, then pause and say it the second way. It doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to communicate. Sometimes you have to use your hands and feet, and that's OK too.
I feel like I owe you money for this kinda therapy…
-
I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The German r isn't trilled, though. Not every "hard" r is "trilled", that's a unique feature of a specific set of languages and regional accents, like Spanish.
Also, as a German I'd frown so hard at someone who pronounces "Microsoft" like that, even most Germans don't speak like that. Can't you at least pronounce it as if it was written "Maikroßoft" (with a German r and a sharp s), i.e. like most Germans do? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
I feel you on having difficulties switching between accents quickly, though. I definitely run into this issue when I try pronouncing English words with English r, w or all those diphtongs that English tends to use instead of the single vowel that's written down.
-
The German r isn't trilled, though. Not every "hard" r is "trilled", that's a unique feature of a specific set of languages and regional accents, like Spanish.
Also, as a German I'd frown so hard at someone who pronounces "Microsoft" like that, even most Germans don't speak like that. Can't you at least pronounce it as if it was written "Maikroßoft" (with a German r and a sharp s), i.e. like most Germans do? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
I feel you on having difficulties switching between accents quickly, though. I definitely run into this issue when I try pronouncing English words with English r, w or all those diphtongs that English tends to use instead of the single vowel that's written down.
German has three widespread r variants, including a trilled one (which is most common around me, but not standard Hochdeutsch), and even more less widespread ones. If you go to Herborn, you can even find native German speakers with a rhotic r that sounds just like the one I grew up with in the US.
