Multiliguists of Lemmy - When speaking Language A and using a word from Language B how do you decide which pronunciation to use?
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…I attempt to change to the pronunciation of the original language of that word
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That’s a great way to put it, though sometimes I run into situations where I know some of my audience will understand language A and not B and some will understand B but not A.
I always end up just freezing; it’s like my brain is rebooting or something.
There's pretty much always time to explain yourself if someone doesn't understand. You could say it the first way that comes to mind, then pause and say it the second way. It doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to communicate. Sometimes you have to use your hands and feet, and that's OK too.
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The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom YumI imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…Depends on the language being used and who I'm talking to
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There's pretty much always time to explain yourself if someone doesn't understand. You could say it the first way that comes to mind, then pause and say it the second way. It doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to communicate. Sometimes you have to use your hands and feet, and that's OK too.
I feel like I owe you money for this kinda therapy…
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I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
wrote last edited by [email protected]The German r isn't trilled, though. Not every "hard" r is "trilled", that's a unique feature of a specific set of languages and regional accents, like Spanish.
Also, as a German I'd frown so hard at someone who pronounces "Microsoft" like that, even most Germans don't speak like that. Can't you at least pronounce it as if it was written "Maikroßoft" (with a German r and a sharp s), i.e. like most Germans do? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
I feel you on having difficulties switching between accents quickly, though. I definitely run into this issue when I try pronouncing English words with English r, w or all those diphtongs that English tends to use instead of the single vowel that's written down.
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The German r isn't trilled, though. Not every "hard" r is "trilled", that's a unique feature of a specific set of languages and regional accents, like Spanish.
Also, as a German I'd frown so hard at someone who pronounces "Microsoft" like that, even most Germans don't speak like that. Can't you at least pronounce it as if it was written "Maikroßoft" (with a German r and a sharp s), i.e. like most Germans do? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
I feel you on having difficulties switching between accents quickly, though. I definitely run into this issue when I try pronouncing English words with English r, w or all those diphtongs that English tends to use instead of the single vowel that's written down.
German has three widespread r variants, including a trilled one (which is most common around me, but not standard Hochdeutsch), and even more less widespread ones. If you go to Herborn, you can even find native German speakers with a rhotic r that sounds just like the one I grew up with in the US.
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German has three widespread r variants, including a trilled one (which is most common around me, but not standard Hochdeutsch), and even more less widespread ones. If you go to Herborn, you can even find native German speakers with a rhotic r that sounds just like the one I grew up with in the US.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I wouldn't call these variants "widespread", but fair enough.
Do the Germans around you actually pronounce "Microsoft" like that, with German i and voiced s?
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I wouldn't call these variants "widespread", but fair enough.
Do the Germans around you actually pronounce "Microsoft" like that, with German i and voiced s?
The old ones do, but young people think I’m cringe. I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it. Regarding my other example, „der Song,“ I tend to just say „das lied” instead, because I recognize that pronouncing it like „der (Minne)sang“ with an o is wrong and hard to understand.
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The old ones do, but young people think I’m cringe. I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it. Regarding my other example, „der Song,“ I tend to just say „das lied” instead, because I recognize that pronouncing it like „der (Minne)sang“ with an o is wrong and hard to understand.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it
But why do you get an American accent when you pronounce "Microsoft" like a German who speaks English with a German accent? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
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I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it
But why do you get an American accent when you pronounce "Microsoft" like a German who speaks English with a German accent? "ai" and sharp s are common sounds in German.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My brain just gets confused, and it automatically switches. I’d like to be able to go back and forth easily, but I can’t. It might come in time, but for now I just stick with the pronunciation that leads from the spelling and standard German pronunciation rules (somewhat tailored to the local dialect)
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Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
Pronounce it properly then give the equivalent in whatever language you're talking in. That's what I do.
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German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
There are proper ways to pronounce English loan words in German. See Handy, aka Hendi auf Deutsch.
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There are proper ways to pronounce English loan words in German. See Handy, aka Hendi auf Deutsch.
Exactly. I don’t pronounce „handy” in German the same as I do in English. „Cool” is almost the same, but with a slightly different L, but those are both actually German words. I was thinking more about recent acquisitions that might not be actually eingedeutscht yet or proper nouns though. I basically pronounce English words like a German who has minimal English knowledge.
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Do you pronounce borrowed French words the way they should be correctly pronounced in everyday settings?
Like this video: https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ
wrote last edited by [email protected]While I don't think that's the objectively correct way (I can accept reasons both for and against switching accents), I also try to say some words the "original" way. In fact, at work I often hear native English customers pronounce some foreign loan words in their corresponding language (or at least making an attempt at it). I wouldn't say that's the dominant style, but it does happen.
What does NOT happen as often is the overexaggerated pitch change that is present in the video. Obviously, they were doing it intentionally for comedic effect, but it also makes fun of people who don't do it out of pretentiousness. Once a word is used often enough, I don't see the point sticking with the "original" pronunciation (I guess not many people pronounce 'beef' as 'bœuf' anymore). Even moreso if the "original" word has sounds that the English language doesn't. I won't get angry if you can't roll your R's.
But when they butcher words that just take some careful reading I lose it. They know the German 'sch', and it's fine - even remarkable. What's not remarkable is when they see a combination of those letters, ignore the order, and just pronounce it as if it was 'sch', regardless. Fuchsia. C-H-S. Maybe, just MAYBE it's not the same as S-C-H. English has a good bunch of words containing CH. The plural of tech is techs. You don't pronounce it as 'tesh'. Fuchsia is, originally, a word containing CH, followed by S.
Another pet (ha) peeve of mine is Dachshund. I know it's confusingly many characters, all c, h and s. But English also has the word 'hound'. It comes from the same root as the German 'Hund'. The rest is Dachs. For hints, see the above paragraph. Pronouncing it as "dashoond" is just as offensive and ignorant (to me; not in general) as saying warthog as war+thog.
