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  3. It is no longer safe to move our governments and societies to US clouds

It is no longer safe to move our governments and societies to US clouds

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  • H [email protected]
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    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    And yet we still do it. See Germany.

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    • H [email protected]
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      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      I have warned about this for decades ... To no avail - Sweden is TOO Microsoftified.

      S E 2 Replies Last reply
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      • T [email protected]

        And as for data safety and privacy, another 1930s Dutch story. Dutch people are great at data and statistics, and very meticulous.

        As a result, we have tons of data on people, including data on where someone's ancestors are from and what religion they have. The results of that, combined with a fascist regime were not pretty.

        B This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        Sweden I think has the earliest records from the 1600s ...

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        • J [email protected]

          There's backups of backups of everything now. I guess if the people in charge want to do it, they could security delete everything, but a random guy won't be able to, which is what happened in 1940.

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          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          no. A lot of agencies and firms have not learned that lesson yet. several lost decades of data in that Tietoevry problem:
          https://www.dn.se/sverige/20-ar-av-data-borta-hackarna-kom-at-sakerhetskopior/

          https://www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyheter/2025/mars/msb-rapport-visar-manga-it-incidenter-orsakas-fortfarande-av-systemfel-eller-misstag/

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          • H [email protected]

            People just don't realize how much power of abuse all this data provides in evil hands. Take smart phone location data. Some time ago, there was an uproar when the move-fast-break-laws company Uber published an analysis of how many of their clients in New York City had probably a one-night stand - based on their location data. A breach of privacy, sure.

            But think about this: Google is collecting all this location data all the time, and storing it permanently. Finding out who is probably having an affair while their spouse is away on a business trip is essentially a database query for them.

            Or another thing: It is well known that the animal most dangerous to single humans is other humans hunting them. The unspeakable hunt on Europes Jews is an example from hell but depressingly, there are many more cases in human history, like the witch hunts or the catholic inquisition.

            Now, if things got too hot, people had the last resort to flee and simply disappear, going to a safe place where nobody knows them. That was the thing that saved Salman Rushdi when he had to flee Iran.

            But in an ultra-connected world without privacy, this is not possible any more. That's because companies like Facebook, Twitter/X and Google have your social graph including your family. And even if you would never would give these companies your address in Rushdie's situation, a family member who has your address on the phone would happily upload his or her whole address book to Facebook or Google.

            That's not a theoretical consideration - being ratted out by social media was the way many people in Syrias civil war (fuelled by Russia) died.

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            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            one of many reasons I ditched smartphones years ago. Yes, life is complicated without but still better 😛

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            • S [email protected]

              It never was.

              The US have a history of using their intelligence agencies to help US companies win bids abroad, we may have been militarily allied, but in the business world we have been enemies for a long time

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              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Using a non government owned and controlled cloud for the government is fucking stupid no matter who owns it. It's only a slightly less bad idea to host it on a cloud owned by an EU company still has the risk of the company being compromised and hiding it for too long.

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              • ? Guest

                Using a non government owned and controlled cloud for the government is fucking stupid no matter who owns it. It's only a slightly less bad idea to host it on a cloud owned by an EU company still has the risk of the company being compromised and hiding it for too long.

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                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                Using a cloud is fucking stupid no matter who does it

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                • 4 [email protected]

                  Using a cloud is fucking stupid no matter who does it

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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  Probably not wrong but I doubt we go back to every government building having their own servers and the cost that comes with it so at the very least I want the actual government in charge of their hardware.

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                  • D [email protected]

                    Never was.

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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    The cloud was always a slow walk off a long pier approach to data takeover. It sickens me.

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                    • B [email protected]

                      I have warned about this for decades ... To no avail - Sweden is TOO Microsoftified.

                      S This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      The entire world is too Microsoftified, but with the rise of flatpaks, Linux may change that.

                      ? W C 3 Replies Last reply
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                      • H [email protected]
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                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        As a dev I have had this workflow at a previous employer:

                        I start my Windows 11 work laptop. I write emails to my coworkers on Outlook, I take notes in OneNote, I make presentations in PowerPoint. We have remote meetings on Teams.

                        I use GitHub and GitHub Actions. I host packages on npm. I write my TypeScript code with VSCode with help from GitHub Copilot, the C# .NET Core code with Visual Studio.

                        I login in to everything usingusing Single Sign On with Active Directory.

                        And everything we make is of course run on Microsoft Azure.

                        Yes, everything mentioned here is owned or maintained by Microsoft.

                        T ? 2 Replies Last reply
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                        • H [email protected]
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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          It was never safe

                          S 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • S [email protected]

                            The entire world is too Microsoftified, but with the rise of flatpaks, Linux may change that.

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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            Maybe this year will be the year of the Linux desktop

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                            • S [email protected]

                              The entire world is too Microsoftified, but with the rise of flatpaks, Linux may change that.

                              W This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              Distros need to make working with flatpacked applications easier. It's way too hard to figure out where files are being saved or how to give apps access to the right resources. FlatSeal helps, but it's not really geared towards casual users.

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                              • B [email protected]

                                I have warned about this for decades ... To no avail - Sweden is TOO Microsoftified.

                                E This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                Microshittified* FTFY

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                                • T [email protected]

                                  It was never safe

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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  The mask is off now.

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                                  • J [email protected]

                                    There's backups of backups of everything now. I guess if the people in charge want to do it, they could security delete everything, but a random guy won't be able to, which is what happened in 1940.

                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    I really hope that's as true as you say since Trump has deleted millions of documents from government databases, tons of which contained invaluable information.

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                                    • M [email protected]

                                      As a dev I have had this workflow at a previous employer:

                                      I start my Windows 11 work laptop. I write emails to my coworkers on Outlook, I take notes in OneNote, I make presentations in PowerPoint. We have remote meetings on Teams.

                                      I use GitHub and GitHub Actions. I host packages on npm. I write my TypeScript code with VSCode with help from GitHub Copilot, the C# .NET Core code with Visual Studio.

                                      I login in to everything usingusing Single Sign On with Active Directory.

                                      And everything we make is of course run on Microsoft Azure.

                                      Yes, everything mentioned here is owned or maintained by Microsoft.

                                      T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      T This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      I use all of those Microsoft products at a sensitive department of the Federal government of Canada, and they are NOT ready to transition away

                                      C 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • H [email protected]
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        Was it ever?

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                                        • H [email protected]
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          The cloud shit was the stupidest idea. Sorry, you want to be an industry leader your going to need industry leading tech professionals.

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