Why do Americans want to know the month first and the day second?
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Until you try to sort your log files alphabetically.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]This is for display, not data processing.
Also guess what, journalctl formats date like "May 21 00:48:56" (probably according to system locale). Why would you sort your log files alphabetically? They should already be in chronological order.
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I personally prefer yyyy-mm-dd, as the Japanese do, which also puts month before day. I think it's because they tend to prioritize history, so that makes sense. Year gives a historical context, month gives the season, while day is kind of arbitrary when talking about historical events. Day will matter most if I'm making short term plans, though, so I certainly see the appeal for day to day life.
Depending on what you're doing, one will matter more. Precision matters more the more fine tuned the situation.
Think of it like hours vs minutes vs seconds. If I'm just thinking vaguely about the time of day, hour gives me most of the context. If I'm meeting someone or baking cookies, minutes matter a lot more but seconds is a bit too specific. If I'm defusing a bomb? Seconds matter.
That's the ISO-8601 format, Japan uses "/" or alternatively yyyy年mm月dd日
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That's the ISO-8601 format, Japan uses "/" or alternatively yyyy年mm月dd日
Yeah I know it by the latter but didn't try to type it out on this phone, lol
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
In normal conversation, it's more common (at least here) to say "May 31st" than "the 31st of May." I think the order of the numerical only dating system is just reflecting that.
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
I like it. Many agree that YYYY-MM-DD is superior. It also reflects informational entropy. Each additional piece of information narrows down the search space most efficiently.
But in normal conversation, chances are we’re talking about the current year. So it makes sense to skip the year, or save it for last.
Word by word, if someone says the month first, I’m already able to know roughly when this date is. Then the information is hammered out with the day.
If someone says the day first, it barely helps — could literally be in any month of the year. It leaves too much unknown until the next piece of information is received.
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In normal conversation, it's more common (at least here) to say "May 31st" than "the 31st of May." I think the order of the numerical only dating system is just reflecting that.
Then why "fourth of July"?
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Then why "fourth of July"?
Because English isn't allowed to be consistent.
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We read left to right.
Hour left makes sense as hour is very important to know, many times for important than the minutes.
With dates year is usually not that important to know, and day/month became much more important to know in a daily basis. So they get a preference.
For instance, a doctor gives you an appointment on 2025-07-25. The first thing you read is 2025, which os not very important as the day and month, as you could already assume the day. A date on 25-07-2025 gives you important information sooner.
I can live with getting that important information a half second later.
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
I'm a fan of ISO-8601 which is YYYY-MM-DD. When context is known, dropping the year on something is fine (i.e. if I post a schedule saying 'summer 2025 schedule', I don't need to start every date on it with 2025). Japanese does this as well (and I think Chinese and Korean, but someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong there).
If the year and month are already known, just using the day is fine as well (a calendar doesn't write the full date in every square). Having it in that order makes sense to me.
MM-DD-YYYY is right out, though, so I only agree with the 'muricans on the MM-DD part.
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Is it honestly more common to have something in another month than the current one?
yes.
my last 5 dr appts have been at least 2 months out, sometimes up to 8 months.
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I wondered whether maybe the us americans had continued using the old style and it was Britain that changed, but no: Britain appears to have been using the day-month-year order since medieval times. This latin letter from William Wallace from 1297 has that order: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Lubeck_Letter
*Given at Haddington in Scotland on the eleventh day of October in the Year of Grace one thousand two hundred and ninety seven. *
The latin line with the date starts with "datum".
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
As an American I'm not really a fan of it mainly because it's different from the World standard. We are the only country that insists on doing it different. It would not be hard to change either. I would love for it to change but it's not something I'm putting a lot of time or thought into right now.
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Then why "fourth of July"?
Probably specifically to stress that it is A Special Day and not just july fourth
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No. RFC 2822 (short format) is also great. “20 Mar 2025”
no letters! Go away letters!
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
The US is the only one to do many stupid things, like imperial units
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9:30 and 21:30, please
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The month first is best because consider what happens if a message gets cut off. You might get:
"You'll be flying to New York on the first of ..." or
"You'll be flying to New York on June..."The first message doesn't tell you anything useful. Do you need to buy shorts or a parka? Do you have months to prepare or are you leaving in a few hours? Could this be an april fools joke? It's a 1/12 chance. Totally useless.
Second message, sure the details are unclear but at least you know what to pack and that you need to hurry about getting the rest of the message.
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I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense TO ME. Based on what I was taught, regardless of the month, I think what matters first is to know what day of the month you are in, if at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of said month. After you know that, you can find out the month to know where you are in the year.
What is the benefit of doing it the other way around?
EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings:
- I am NOT making fun OF ANYONE.
- I am NOT negatively judging ANYTHING.
- I am totally open to being corrected and LEARN.
- This post is out of pure and honest CURIOSITY.
So PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way.
Context clues.
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I wondered whether maybe the us americans had continued using the old style and it was Britain that changed, but no: Britain appears to have been using the day-month-year order since medieval times. This latin letter from William Wallace from 1297 has that order: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Lubeck_Letter
*Given at Haddington in Scotland on the eleventh day of October in the Year of Grace one thousand two hundred and ninety seven. *
The latin line with the date starts with "datum".
I think it was a 18th century British fad that spread to America - for example, look at the date on this London newspaper from 1734:
- in the text it does also use the other format about "last month", however.It didn't make it into legal documents / laws, which still used the more traditional format like: "That from and after the Tenth Day of April, One thousand seven hundred and ten ...". However, the American Revolution effectively froze many British fashions from that point-in-time in place (as another example, see speaking English without the trap/bath split, which was a subsequent trend in the commonwealth).
The fad eventually died out and most of the world went back to the more traditional format, but it persisted in the USA.
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I think it was a 18th century British fad that spread to America - for example, look at the date on this London newspaper from 1734:
- in the text it does also use the other format about "last month", however.It didn't make it into legal documents / laws, which still used the more traditional format like: "That from and after the Tenth Day of April, One thousand seven hundred and ten ...". However, the American Revolution effectively froze many British fashions from that point-in-time in place (as another example, see speaking English without the trap/bath split, which was a subsequent trend in the commonwealth).
The fad eventually died out and most of the world went back to the more traditional format, but it persisted in the USA.
Great find.
I checked a few other historic front pages on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_oldest_newspapers
The Oxford Gazette from 1665 used the same month-day format. The first edition from The Guardian from 1821 also used it. Some British news papers like The Times never stopped using it, while The Guardian is now using day-month. So it was the British after all.
