Hungary's parliament passes constitutional amendment banning public LGBTQ+ events
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
Be glad that there are so few of us that we can't afford violence. You will pay, though likely on far too small a scale.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union
Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/11-freedom-expression-and-information
- Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
I know that this isn't identical to the First Amendment in the US. It doesn't explicitly prohibit laws against assembling, for one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
And that legal interpretations won't be the same. But there's gotta be at least some argument that this runs afoul of the EU treaties and should be challenged under those.
The European Convention on Human Rights does explicitly prohibit restrictions on assembly, but it explicitly allows such prohibitions if it's to protect morals, which I assume is the grounds under which Hungary is acting in banning LGBTQ groups:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_11_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights
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Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
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No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.
Thanks for the extensive comment, but unfortunately the EU can't take Hungary to court. They also ignored the ICC order to arrest Netanyahu. I know I sound very cynical by quoting this, but it seems a very true to me (and Orban) right now.
Laws without enforced consequences are merely suggestions.
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
What's wrong with LGBTQ? I can't understand his motivations. I'm not LGBTQ myself but banning public events by them makes no sense to me. Does he think he'll get more votes this way?
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Thanks for the extensive comment, but unfortunately the EU can't take Hungary to court. They also ignored the ICC order to arrest Netanyahu. I know I sound very cynical by quoting this, but it seems a very true to me (and Orban) right now.
Laws without enforced consequences are merely suggestions.
unfortunately the EU can’t take Hungary to court.
Hmm. No? Isn't that what the European Court of Human Rights is for, as to ECHR violations?
There are rulings against countries here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Court_of_Human_Rights_judgments
For violations of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, I'd think that the European Court of Justice would have jurisdiction, and I see rulings here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Court_of_Justice_rulings
Like Commission v. Italy.
They also ignored the ICC order to arrest Netanyahu.
I'm not sure as to whether this affects things. I don't think that this is a matter of law that the ICC deals with.
ICC members have ignored arrest warrants before, so there's precedent.
And as far as I know, the ICC isn't the court that would deal with EU treaty violations, yes? It's not an EU institution or Council of Europe institution.
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
I am not surprised that Orban would push such a thing. But I am surprised that they would go as far as to amend the constitution for this, with seemingly a very comfortable majority. Is this really a reflection of Hungarian society nowadays? Have so many jumped on the conservative moral panic bandwagon over LGBTQ?
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What's wrong with LGBTQ? I can't understand his motivations. I'm not LGBTQ myself but banning public events by them makes no sense to me. Does he think he'll get more votes this way?
Just like there was nothing wrong with Jews, they need a public enemy and they can't pick people from the majority so they've picked non-whites non-straights and non-females. Also lines up with the Christian believe system, which have been using LGBTQ people as scapegoat since they stopped burning witches.
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unfortunately the EU can’t take Hungary to court.
Hmm. No? Isn't that what the European Court of Human Rights is for, as to ECHR violations?
There are rulings against countries here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Court_of_Human_Rights_judgments
For violations of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, I'd think that the European Court of Justice would have jurisdiction, and I see rulings here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Court_of_Justice_rulings
Like Commission v. Italy.
They also ignored the ICC order to arrest Netanyahu.
I'm not sure as to whether this affects things. I don't think that this is a matter of law that the ICC deals with.
ICC members have ignored arrest warrants before, so there's precedent.
And as far as I know, the ICC isn't the court that would deal with EU treaty violations, yes? It's not an EU institution or Council of Europe institution.
I don't know much about legal systems so your comments and sources are nice, but I haven't really seen the EU having much influence on Orban so far while I feel they have had problems with a lot of stuff he did.
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
I feel like scholars need to get out of the books and into the real world. The same is being said about the US and it's so obvious where both are going that I really wonder why scholars and press aren't just calling it what it is
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
Hungary's parliament is currently above the constitution because the ruling party has a 2/3 majority. They might as well pass all laws as constitutional laws. The situation is quite similar to the UK where any party with a prime minister can change anything at all.
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Is this constitutional?
Oh wait, it's a constitution change, so it probably is constitutional.But what about EU primary law and the EHRC? Wouldn't be the first time constitutional law is deemed incompatible with EU or international law.
In some countries constitutional ammendments need to be compatoble with whatever constitutional law already exists
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I don't know much about legal systems so your comments and sources are nice, but I haven't really seen the EU having much influence on Orban so far while I feel they have had problems with a lot of stuff he did.
Get BMW, Audi & Mercedes to suspend activities. While the EU is still reaping the benefits of a worsening forint, it rings hollow that they wouldn't have influence. Even closing the funds (tying it to rule of law) has had a positive effect, the regime seems to ve feeling it. It feels more and more that it's all about the cashflow and sating interests.
The problem is the people in the EU have as much control over this phenomenon as an average opposition voter in Hungary.
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Thanks for the extensive comment, but unfortunately the EU can't take Hungary to court. They also ignored the ICC order to arrest Netanyahu. I know I sound very cynical by quoting this, but it seems a very true to me (and Orban) right now.
Laws without enforced consequences are merely suggestions.
Kick them out of the union.
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I am not surprised that Orban would push such a thing. But I am surprised that they would go as far as to amend the constitution for this, with seemingly a very comfortable majority. Is this really a reflection of Hungarian society nowadays? Have so many jumped on the conservative moral panic bandwagon over LGBTQ?
No, it's purely distraction and building more support. A power play, if you will. It is the 15th time Fidesz has modified (unilaterally) the Hungarian constitution that they wrote about 15 years back.
With the same stroke they are also enshrining that drugs are bad and for some reason, the right to use cash. Alternatively many opposition politician's have had their immunity revoked. And personally a scary one, dual citizens can lose citizenship for reasons.
As for the anti-gay sentiment. In the capital I would say it's not a thing, but two guys holding hands walking down an empty street could get accosted. In smaller cities I've noticed that being openly gay is tolerated, but frowned upon. I'm sure the propaganda brainwashed many, there were plenty of haters to begin with anyway. Kids use gay and fag about the same way as Cartman from South Park.
The mayor of Budapest is still planning on hosting the Pride festival this year.
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Kick them out of the union.
Yeah, personally I think that something that's playing a big part in the rise of the right wing is that the current powers that be seem to be completely spineless. And happy to make certain institutions like the EU or even UN look like a bit of a joke or hypocrites. The longer they keep Hungary around making the 'values' of the EU look like they're just suggestions, the harder it is to convince some podcast hooked kid not to support and vote for the people that want to tear the whole thing down.
And the same goes for Palestine, as contentious as the issue is. When the whole culture that you've cultivated back home for the last couple of decades is one of tolerance and peace and justice, then not only sit back and let something like the Palestine situation happen but start threatening and deporting the children that you taught to care for speaking out about it, then why should anyone believe a word you say anymore. Especially young people who are looking for something to believe in.
Our leaders fucking suck across the globe, actually. Just carrying on like it's just another day and the idiots aren't slowly taking over.
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Hungary's parliament has passed an amendment to the constitution that allows the government to ban public events by LGBTQ+ communities, a decision that legal scholars and critics are calling another step toward authoritarianism.
The amendment, which required a two-thirds vote, passed along party lines with 140 votes for and 21 against.
It was proposed by the ruling Fidesz-KDNP coalition led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
The amendment declares that children's rights to moral, physical and spiritual development supersede any right other than the right to life, including the right to peacefully assemble.
The amendment codifies a law fast-tracked through parliament in March that bans public events held by LGBTQ+ communities, including the popular Pride event in Budapest that draws thousands of visitors annually.
That law also allows authorities to use facial recognition tools to identify people who attend prohibited events and can come with fines of up to 200,000 Hungarian forints (€481).
What the fuck is a moral and why's it so worth protecting?
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Yeah, personally I think that something that's playing a big part in the rise of the right wing is that the current powers that be seem to be completely spineless. And happy to make certain institutions like the EU or even UN look like a bit of a joke or hypocrites. The longer they keep Hungary around making the 'values' of the EU look like they're just suggestions, the harder it is to convince some podcast hooked kid not to support and vote for the people that want to tear the whole thing down.
And the same goes for Palestine, as contentious as the issue is. When the whole culture that you've cultivated back home for the last couple of decades is one of tolerance and peace and justice, then not only sit back and let something like the Palestine situation happen but start threatening and deporting the children that you taught to care for speaking out about it, then why should anyone believe a word you say anymore. Especially young people who are looking for something to believe in.
Our leaders fucking suck across the globe, actually. Just carrying on like it's just another day and the idiots aren't slowly taking over.
Totally, our leaders fucking suck. But also I would like to argue it is a really great thing our leaders are (at least most of them) just regular people like you and me. And I don't know about you, but I suck from time to time too. Also fuck up everyone once in a while, make mistakes and am sometimes misinformed as well. I think we should collectively work on improving the system but also give the part of the idiots that do mean well some lenience. I think calling all politicians idiots, snakes and blood drinking lizards can be a slippery slope that can have very serious consequences in the long run.
But I agree it's totally worthless barely anybody is speaking up against Netanyahu in a meaningful way, even after so many recorded war crimes.
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Hungary's parliament is currently above the constitution because the ruling party has a 2/3 majority. They might as well pass all laws as constitutional laws. The situation is quite similar to the UK where any party with a prime minister can change anything at all.
We have a similar system in the Netherlands but a meaningful difference is that you don't only need a 2/3 majority but also a 'confirming' vote by the next coalition. This might not do much in a case like Hungary or Turkey where the next ruler is similar as the previous but there having to be a public vote in between can potentially greatly shift the powers and end the majority.
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Hungary's parliament is currently above the constitution because the ruling party has a 2/3 majority. They might as well pass all laws as constitutional laws. The situation is quite similar to the UK where any party with a prime minister can change anything at all.
And that's a 2/3 majority of seats, right? Not votes, not popular support.
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We have a similar system in the Netherlands but a meaningful difference is that you don't only need a 2/3 majority but also a 'confirming' vote by the next coalition. This might not do much in a case like Hungary or Turkey where the next ruler is similar as the previous but there having to be a public vote in between can potentially greatly shift the powers and end the majority.
That sounds like quite a sensible system. Also in NL the 2/3 will almost always require a broad coalition of parties because of your proportional system.
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And that's a 2/3 majority of seats, right? Not votes, not popular support.
Yup. They have a very distorted electoral system which gives them that on 40-50% support.
