A conundrum
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I agree with a lot of what you said but this is complete bullshit:
while denser downtowns (guess where the poors have to rent and ultimately fund the property taxes)
I have never been able to live in a "downtown" because I'm just a construction worker. So GTFO with "these poor inner city areas are funding the suburbs." I'm in one of the nicer houses I've ever managed to live in and it's primarily a shithole. You're telling me that the people downtown are subsidizing my white-trash ass? No way.
You’re both right which is what’s so fucked.
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I agree with a lot of what you said but this is complete bullshit:
while denser downtowns (guess where the poors have to rent and ultimately fund the property taxes)
I have never been able to live in a "downtown" because I'm just a construction worker. So GTFO with "these poor inner city areas are funding the suburbs." I'm in one of the nicer houses I've ever managed to live in and it's primarily a shithole. You're telling me that the people downtown are subsidizing my white-trash ass? No way.
Yeah, I'm living rural because living in the city is still more than twice as expensive. Some bad faith actors want to reclassify it as 'suburban' because it's doubled in size since covid, but I'm closer to cows than the grocery store, so that falls flat.
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They don't actually need regular payments for 10-30 years. They need you deposit that down payment cash ASAP so they can lease it to billionaires and crypto exchanges.
The deposit is to cover expenses/losses that arise out of defaults. Housing loans have been lile this forever. Not everything is a conspiracy.
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Yeah, I'm living rural because living in the city is still more than twice as expensive. Some bad faith actors want to reclassify it as 'suburban' because it's doubled in size since covid, but I'm closer to cows than the grocery store, so that falls flat.
I like that metric
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You’re both right which is what’s so fucked.
It depends on the city. Smaller non touristy cities. Your cheapest rents are near downtown core with all the old buildings and the only place density has been allowed to be built for the past 60 years. Bigger cities the central downtown is defintely expensive, i guess in those cities im more so refering to anywhere with apartment buildings density, which can give a downtown feel if older buildings are still preserved nearby. Although a lot of the time they've been paved over and thats how we get apartments that stand 20 stories high surrounded by a sea of single story strip malls and box stores.
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The other side of that is that my mortgage, even with rising property taxes and my house appreciating wildly in value, tracks less than renting.
If I could rent a place for the price of my mortgage with the cost rising at the level my mortgage does … I’d rent all day long
Yeah, that's the thing. The market went upside down. Maybe 1993? Before that renting made sense even from a financial perspective in many areas. But now when housing is double or treble inflation? Nope. Sink money into real property at your first opportunity.
We have fucked up the entire "developed" world so much that if you start poor you stay poor and housing is a large part of that equation.
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Where y'all finding houses for 500/month with a 25k downpayment?
Seems cheap af. If you only did a 25k downpayment the mortgage would certainly be more expensive than rent where I'm at.
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Yeah, that's the thing. The market went upside down. Maybe 1993? Before that renting made sense even from a financial perspective in many areas. But now when housing is double or treble inflation? Nope. Sink money into real property at your first opportunity.
We have fucked up the entire "developed" world so much that if you start poor you stay poor and housing is a large part of that equation.
wrote last edited by [email protected]In my lifetime interest rates on mortgages went from high teens to the 3.whatever I have.
Home values skyrocketed and now the expectation seems to be this must continue.
Honestly I’m happier to pass my house on to my kid than turn a profit on it.
Now if HE buys a house and inherits mine … I hope he turns a fat profit on it lmao
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I tell my soon-to-leave-the-nest kids:
Rent is the most you will pay every month. The mortgage is the least you will pay every month.
I'm loving them being here as full grown adults and enjoy my time with them and with our particular house they are seeing that lesson play out in real time. Some big expenses and I am the DIY dude. I don't fuck with (big) electric or gas though, that shit can really backfire.
Rent vs mortgage - gotta put a caveat on that one.
Renting = landlord gets all the money but has to maintain the property.
Mortgage - bank gets all the money and you get a partial refund if you sell. You pay for the upkeep. A mortgage is not really an "investment", you usually lose money on the deal if you live there. It's cheap rent from the bank.
It basic math to see which one is better long term. Usually the mortgage wins because of of the partial return. However if you can't do the upkeep yourself, renting is often a better financial decision.
There have been times when renting was the smarter financial decision. Like the housing bubble in 2003-2007. You could rent places for 1/2 what it would cost to buy them per month.
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How fucking old is this? Unless it's a real shithole, mortgages have not been this cheap since Truss fucked up the economy
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They did this before it worked out really well around 2008
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Rent vs mortgage - gotta put a caveat on that one.
Renting = landlord gets all the money but has to maintain the property.
Mortgage - bank gets all the money and you get a partial refund if you sell. You pay for the upkeep. A mortgage is not really an "investment", you usually lose money on the deal if you live there. It's cheap rent from the bank.
It basic math to see which one is better long term. Usually the mortgage wins because of of the partial return. However if you can't do the upkeep yourself, renting is often a better financial decision.
There have been times when renting was the smarter financial decision. Like the housing bubble in 2003-2007. You could rent places for 1/2 what it would cost to buy them per month.
I think people should listen to this user.
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In my lifetime interest rates on mortgages went from high teens to the 3.whatever I have.
Home values skyrocketed and now the expectation seems to be this must continue.
Honestly I’m happier to pass my house on to my kid than turn a profit on it.
Now if HE buys a house and inherits mine … I hope he turns a fat profit on it lmao
Right? My parents were ecstatic to get 11% on the home I grew up in. Now my mom's retirement condo? three dot whatever like you said.
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And while we're ranting about this, can we throw PMI and whomever came up with it on the bonfire where they belong?
Your telling me that I need to pay for you to have insurance in case I default while your also charging me interest who's very purpose is to offset risk? Why am I paying to offset your risk FUCKING TWICE AND HOW IS THIS FUCKING LEGAL.
Shit infuriates me. I want all the bankers to get William Wallace on live TV, recorded and played back once a year during a mandatory viewing window so that we never, ever, forget.
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The cost of owning vs renting can be very different depending on where you live and work and the amenities you want access to. Renting somewhere centrally located with good access to high quality transit and other amenities would likely be cheaper than owning. Unless we can start normalizing owning apartments again. You could own for cheaper on the outskirts of downtown, but you'll likely be sacraficing access to some amenities by doing so.
Renting somewhere centrally located with good access to high quality transit and other amenities would likely be cheaper than owning.
I'd need to see an example. I've never heard of a place that was cheaper to rent than own after five years. The break point on rentals tend to be short term stays, and mostly because of the cost of real estate transactions themselves.
For public housing it can be cheaper. But that's never going to be a centrally located high-rise.
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It depends on the city. Smaller non touristy cities. Your cheapest rents are near downtown core with all the old buildings and the only place density has been allowed to be built for the past 60 years. Bigger cities the central downtown is defintely expensive, i guess in those cities im more so refering to anywhere with apartment buildings density, which can give a downtown feel if older buildings are still preserved nearby. Although a lot of the time they've been paved over and thats how we get apartments that stand 20 stories high surrounded by a sea of single story strip malls and box stores.
wrote last edited by [email protected]See, it's the opposite here. In the nearby city (pop 90k), the downtown areas are hellaciously expensive because they're closest to amenities. The farther you get from grocery stores and bars, the cheaper it gets. It's so weird to me that there are places where living next to shopping is cheaper than living far from shopping. It doesn't help that the downtown apartments are being remodeled into luxe apartments and the suburbs and rural areas are where the affordable housing is being built.
The suburbs are cheaper, but you have to drive to do the shopping, and the rural areas are cheapest because everything smells like cow when it rains, and you have to drive to do the shopping.
Edit: My rural neighborhood is a combination of apartments, trailer homes, and detached housing, and it's more than a mile from groceries.
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Where y'all finding houses for 500/month with a 25k downpayment?
Seems cheap af. If you only did a 25k downpayment the mortgage would certainly be more expensive than rent where I'm at.
There will be shitholes in bum fuck nowhere but in this area rent will not be 1k lol
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See, it's the opposite here. In the nearby city (pop 90k), the downtown areas are hellaciously expensive because they're closest to amenities. The farther you get from grocery stores and bars, the cheaper it gets. It's so weird to me that there are places where living next to shopping is cheaper than living far from shopping. It doesn't help that the downtown apartments are being remodeled into luxe apartments and the suburbs and rural areas are where the affordable housing is being built.
The suburbs are cheaper, but you have to drive to do the shopping, and the rural areas are cheapest because everything smells like cow when it rains, and you have to drive to do the shopping.
Edit: My rural neighborhood is a combination of apartments, trailer homes, and detached housing, and it's more than a mile from groceries.
In my area it means you can rent something out thats had nothing but the bare minimums of renovations for the past 40-60 years and still get a decent market price for the unit. The stuff that is farther out is newer, more spacious, and often considered in a safer area, so they can ask for more. You are getting a better unit farther out but you gotta pay for it vs living in something run down but saving on rent and transportation.
There exceptions of course, it really depends on the age and desirability of the neighborhood
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Yeah, I'm living rural because living in the city is still more than twice as expensive. Some bad faith actors want to reclassify it as 'suburban' because it's doubled in size since covid, but I'm closer to cows than the grocery store, so that falls flat.
Some places literally build cookie cutter subdivisions on a chunk of land in the middle of farms they bought so the classification may not be that far fetched depending on the circumstances. My parents house is technically zoned as agricultural yet the recent sprawl of nearby cities means there is now a mcdonalds less than 1km away and suburbs creep closer each year.
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I've never paid a mortgage, but £500 seems pretty low. Do mortgage payments tend to be that much cheaper than rent prices?
I think most of the people disagreeing with the post are from the USA, which has completely different costs/taxes/prices etc.
In the UK (as the original post is), it depends where you live - our mortgage is about £350 per month (5 bed terrace), but if would have been almost £500 a month without the deposit. Rent in the area is about £600 - £1500 per month, for similar or smaller properties.
Note that this is in Northern UK, in the sort of town sometimes described as "a bit of a shithole". I could get a train to a town an hour away and the prices would literally double - but the ratio between mortgage and rent would be pretty much the same.
Even with the cost of repairs, and a tiny bit on insurance etc, it's a significant saving. Also, the repairs actually get done, which was not the experience I had in rented accommodation.
