Conservative Nawrocki narrowly wins Poland's presidential election
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If only the media would stop downplaying those far right nutjobs as harmless conservatives.
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securing 50.89 percent of the vote
bruh
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Nooo, fuuuck!
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That's why our struggle is nearly futile in the long run.
We have to win every single time. They only really have to win once. -
That's why our struggle is nearly futile in the long run.
We have to win every single time. They only really have to win once.I both agree and disagree with you.
Yes, it's a struggle to fight against Fascism, always has, always will be. It's a nasty infection.
On the other hand, Fascism only ever has an easy time at it if we let them. Keep fighting. They may have won the battle, but the war isn't over until they wipe out the ideas of personal freedom and self-determination.
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That's why our struggle is nearly futile in the long run.
We have to win every single time. They only really have to win once.This presoposes that we defend the status quo. Trumps reelection and now the polish election made it clear that this is a losing strategy. We need a new approach to countering fascism and for rebuilding democracy.
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This presoposes that we defend the status quo. Trumps reelection and now the polish election made it clear that this is a losing strategy. We need a new approach to countering fascism and for rebuilding democracy.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]This. The old ways are only good at limiting the flow, and even that's up to a point.
Fascism is the type of vehemence which requires an equal vehemence to successfully oppose it.
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This presoposes that we defend the status quo. Trumps reelection and now the polish election made it clear that this is a losing strategy. We need a new approach to countering fascism and for rebuilding democracy.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]One of the key things to take away from this is that our current tactics are insufficient, mostly because they stick to "old-style" decorum while the far right doesn't impose any of those kinds of limits upon themselves. We essentially handicap ourselves by "playing nice" while the people we're up against have no such qualms in the slightest. If we don't learn to fight dirty as well we might as well give up right now.
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I'm not sure, how much power the president have in the Polish system? Is most of the power in Prime Minister as in Italy or is it more like France? The prime minister is still Tusk, he is not seems perfect, but seeing the options I hope he will continue in office
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If only the media would stop downplaying those far right nutjobs as harmless conservatives.
Was double disappointed this morning when I saw the results and then saw the guardian called Nawrocki “conservative”. The dude is literally Trumpian.
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One of the key things to take away from this is that our current tactics are insufficient, mostly because they stick to "old-style" decorum while the far right doesn't impose any of those kinds of limits upon themselves. We essentially handicap ourselves by "playing nice" while the people we're up against have no such qualms in the slightest. If we don't learn to fight dirty as well we might as well give up right now.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I honestly don't think we have to play dirty in any way, we have to be willing to be just as forceful as they are when we tell them "no." And we need to start telling them that a lllot more!
The problem with the old system is not that it tries to always play nice, it's that it's trying to not upset the money. As an example, the correct way to aproach Trump's tariffs and overall intentions would have been to completely cut any and all economic and political ties with America. Like, no offence to any Americans who didn't vote for him, but that's the unfortunate truth.
Of course, that would've been DEEPLY uncomfortable for all of us and would've required a unified front on our end, but sometimes you have to burn the field if you're to make room for a healthier crop.
And this is an extreme example, but the same principle applies in all such interactions with Fascism, at any level. We (Romania) narrowly avoided electing a Fascistic president - that guy should've been pelted with tomatoes from day one, he should've been shouted out of the electoral pool. But we can't have that, because the Fascists will get upset.
My question: who the fuck cares if we upset the Fascists?! Isn't that the whole fucking point?!
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I both agree and disagree with you.
Yes, it's a struggle to fight against Fascism, always has, always will be. It's a nasty infection.
On the other hand, Fascism only ever has an easy time at it if we let them. Keep fighting. They may have won the battle, but the war isn't over until they wipe out the ideas of personal freedom and self-determination.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The horrible thing though is most elections our choice is a facist who paints themselves as representatives of the working class (but basically wants to make the world worse for everyone). Or a pro-elite neoliberal center or center-“left” candidate who inevitably doesn’t solve much at all except doing everything to undermine the left which essentially means next time there is widespread discontent the far right will benefit.
I hate this world. (Obviously, I prefer and vote for the centrist candidates, but the outlook in the long run is hella grim).
Essentially:
(Neo)liberals: Cut public services, deregulate markets, manage inequality, repress protest. The left opposition is marginalised, criminalised, or co-opted. There is widespread alienation Especially among the working class and youth. -> Far right steps in: Offers fake solidarity, nationalism, scapegoats. -> (Neo)liberals say: “We’re the only thing standing between you and fascism.” -> Repeat. -
Was double disappointed this morning when I saw the results and then saw the guardian called Nawrocki “conservative”. The dude is literally Trumpian.
Yesterday accidentally watched the news on TV where they not only had the audacity to call this guy a "conservative", but also firmly placed his opponent in the "left wing". "Journalists" these days.
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The horrible thing though is most elections our choice is a facist who paints themselves as representatives of the working class (but basically wants to make the world worse for everyone). Or a pro-elite neoliberal center or center-“left” candidate who inevitably doesn’t solve much at all except doing everything to undermine the left which essentially means next time there is widespread discontent the far right will benefit.
I hate this world. (Obviously, I prefer and vote for the centrist candidates, but the outlook in the long run is hella grim).
Essentially:
(Neo)liberals: Cut public services, deregulate markets, manage inequality, repress protest. The left opposition is marginalised, criminalised, or co-opted. There is widespread alienation Especially among the working class and youth. -> Far right steps in: Offers fake solidarity, nationalism, scapegoats. -> (Neo)liberals say: “We’re the only thing standing between you and fascism.” -> Repeat.Yep, we need a rebuild, from the ground up. Democracy is a very good idea, but the Greeks were right in that it needs a lot more fine-tuning.
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Yesterday accidentally watched the news on TV where they not only had the audacity to call this guy a "conservative", but also firmly placed his opponent in the "left wing". "Journalists" these days.
Nah okay that’s even more ridiculous. The “centrist” who won’t even legalise abortion is “left wing”. Damn the overton window is grim these days.
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Yep, we need a rebuild, from the ground up. Democracy is a very good idea, but the Greeks were right in that it needs a lot more fine-tuning.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I think it needs actual democracy. Grassroots power. Ground up, not top down.
Not voting in popularity contests with millions of others where corporate funded campaign financing influences everything you see and corporate funded media influences everything you hear.
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I'm not sure, how much power the president have in the Polish system? Is most of the power in Prime Minister as in Italy or is it more like France? The prime minister is still Tusk, he is not seems perfect, but seeing the options I hope he will continue in office
Although executive power lies largely with Poland’s parliament, the presidency carries the power to veto legislation.
As such, the election outcome is being closely monitored not only in Poland but also in Ukraine, Russia, the United States, and across the European Union.
So as far as I understand. As long as PiS doesn’t win legislative elections. It basically means Poland will be in gridlock for a long time and get nothing done.
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I think it needs actual democracy. Grassroots power. Ground up, not top down.
Not voting in popularity contests with millions of others where corporate funded campaign financing influences everything you see and corporate funded media influences everything you hear.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]See, this is why I STRONGLY believe something like Lemmy is essential for an actual Democracy to function. Of course, not the only thing, we also need a rethink of our educational systems, a complete restructuring of our priorities and principles as a species, and these are just to name a few.
But true Democracy cannot exist unless the consensus is granular, as well as educated and rational. The Forum is necessary.
But we still have a lot of rethinking to do beyond just that, otherwise we'll be right back where we started. We can't have a Democracy centered around anything other than its people (i.e. not fucking Capitalism).
Edit: and it needs to function primarily toward nurturing people who can adequately carry said Democratic process! We should never have do our shopping while starving, so to speak, and we should be educated in such a way as to understand what and why we're consuming, with adequate transparency to allow us that understanding, etc.
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I honestly don't think we have to play dirty in any way, we have to be willing to be just as forceful as they are when we tell them "no." And we need to start telling them that a lllot more!
The problem with the old system is not that it tries to always play nice, it's that it's trying to not upset the money. As an example, the correct way to aproach Trump's tariffs and overall intentions would have been to completely cut any and all economic and political ties with America. Like, no offence to any Americans who didn't vote for him, but that's the unfortunate truth.
Of course, that would've been DEEPLY uncomfortable for all of us and would've required a unified front on our end, but sometimes you have to burn the field if you're to make room for a healthier crop.
And this is an extreme example, but the same principle applies in all such interactions with Fascism, at any level. We (Romania) narrowly avoided electing a Fascistic president - that guy should've been pelted with tomatoes from day one, he should've been shouted out of the electoral pool. But we can't have that, because the Fascists will get upset.
My question: who the fuck cares if we upset the Fascists?! Isn't that the whole fucking point?!
My question: who the fuck cares if we upset the Fascists?! Isn’t that the whole fucking point?!
If you go out of your way to avoid upsetting fascists, the fascists win, because they will for sure make up a way to be upset about you if it only suits them.
