Denmark raises retirement age to 70 — the highest in Europe
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reduce the dependency ratio
i can't help but think this "problem" could be solved in ways other than forcing people to work until they're 70. like for instance TAX THE FUCKING RICH
i know propaganda is a powerful weapon, but you should be extremely skeptical of the people saying "the problem can't be solved any other way..." and what their motivation might be (spoiler: keep themselves rich at the expense of everyone else. including, apparently, the elderly who have already spent their life working)
Most people can't work at that age, and no one will hire you like after 55 anyways. So stupid and evil.
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How are you gonna stop "the rich" from simply taking all of their digitally stored wealth and leaving the country that taxes them?
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, i'm just curious. With borders being more for show than anything and the ability to purchase a passport from countries with low or no income tax, how do you propose to stop them?
This is where the nationalists win against the globalists in all types of debate. They atleast have a strategy, even if it leads to other humanitarian problems. You have to start giving more of a shit about your own community, either by becoming rich and giving it back to the community or let the rich leave and deal with the aftermath of it.
it's not an easy thing to solve, and a large part of it comes down to not having a country where greedy selfish assholes make all the rules and hoodwink the populace into supporting policy that completely the opposite of in their own best interest
i don't know about other countries, but investing more in the "common good" has basically become a pejorative where i live, where people who benefit the most from publicly funded resources whine the loudest about "socialism"
it may be too late. there may be no solution, other than the late 1700s french sort
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reduce the dependency ratio
i can't help but think this "problem" could be solved in ways other than forcing people to work until they're 70. like for instance TAX THE FUCKING RICH
i know propaganda is a powerful weapon, but you should be extremely skeptical of the people saying "the problem can't be solved any other way..." and what their motivation might be (spoiler: keep themselves rich at the expense of everyone else. including, apparently, the elderly who have already spent their life working)
And you're saying this about that bastion of right-wing economic policy... Denmark? Tax-to-GDP ratio in the mid 40s, second highest amongst OECD countries?
No-one here has said that increasing the pension age is the only solution. Indeed, on its own, it probably doesn't solve the problem. But it's one part of a plan. Other parts include addressing the other side of the equation - young people, so encouraging immigration and increasing birth rates (but Danish net immigration is already about 1% of its population per year which isn't low, high levels of immigration are unpopular, and increasing birth rates is difficult and makes the problem worse for at least 18 years). Tax policy is another aspect of it, but you have to realise that having an older population doesn't mean that working population is willing or able to bear higher tax rates (even if you try to target them at the rich) That is to say, if you have a high average tax rate already, as you do in Denmark, increasing it further to pay for an aging population is likely to start having adverse effects, and it doesn't matter why you're increasing taxation.
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How are you gonna stop "the rich" from simply taking all of their digitally stored wealth and leaving the country that taxes them?
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, i'm just curious. With borders being more for show than anything and the ability to purchase a passport from countries with low or no income tax, how do you propose to stop them?
This is where the nationalists win against the globalists in all types of debate. They atleast have a strategy, even if it leads to other humanitarian problems. You have to start giving more of a shit about your own community, either by becoming rich and giving it back to the community or let the rich leave and deal with the aftermath of it.
They never leave, that's propaganda from the rich class (Massachusetts passed a millionaires tax and I saw in person this to be a bunch of bologna). They obviously live there for reasons other than taxes.
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reduce the dependency ratio
i can't help but think this "problem" could be solved in ways other than forcing people to work until they're 70. like for instance TAX THE FUCKING RICH
i know propaganda is a powerful weapon, but you should be extremely skeptical of the people saying "the problem can't be solved any other way..." and what their motivation might be (spoiler: keep themselves rich at the expense of everyone else. including, apparently, the elderly who have already spent their life working)
Far from perfect, and with rising inequality, but Denmark has generally been relatively decent when it comes to taxing the rich and high-income individuals.
As born in the 90s I'm expected to retire at the earliest by 72. I don't understand this at all though - I'm expecting a reduced need for labourers as many things become increasingly automatised anyway, so it's an entirely wrong focus in the first place.
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And then come the robots and AI, and there are no jobs anymore. Then they have a problem with too much unemployment.
This is my main issue with it too. I can retire at 72 or later.. in more than 40 years. I'd expect to be replaced long before this, so what's the point?
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And you're saying this about that bastion of right-wing economic policy... Denmark? Tax-to-GDP ratio in the mid 40s, second highest amongst OECD countries?
No-one here has said that increasing the pension age is the only solution. Indeed, on its own, it probably doesn't solve the problem. But it's one part of a plan. Other parts include addressing the other side of the equation - young people, so encouraging immigration and increasing birth rates (but Danish net immigration is already about 1% of its population per year which isn't low, high levels of immigration are unpopular, and increasing birth rates is difficult and makes the problem worse for at least 18 years). Tax policy is another aspect of it, but you have to realise that having an older population doesn't mean that working population is willing or able to bear higher tax rates (even if you try to target them at the rich) That is to say, if you have a high average tax rate already, as you do in Denmark, increasing it further to pay for an aging population is likely to start having adverse effects, and it doesn't matter why you're increasing taxation.
i don't know what to tell you then, other than people might not be more excited to have kids knowing that they'll be working until they're 70. unless their plan is to move the entire family out of the country. which also makes the problem worse
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How are you gonna stop "the rich" from simply taking all of their digitally stored wealth and leaving the country that taxes them?
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, i'm just curious. With borders being more for show than anything and the ability to purchase a passport from countries with low or no income tax, how do you propose to stop them?
This is where the nationalists win against the globalists in all types of debate. They atleast have a strategy, even if it leads to other humanitarian problems. You have to start giving more of a shit about your own community, either by becoming rich and giving it back to the community or let the rich leave and deal with the aftermath of it.
I hate this argument.
If they're not paying their fair share of taxes then leaving is beneficial. It's like saying "yeah but if you ask the thieves to pay for their stolen goods they might leave the store"
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Not to mention the consumer base that makes this all function collapses.
Whoever owns the most effective killbots at year 0 inherits the earth. Everyone else gets murdered or starves to death.
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Denmark is set to have the highest retirement age in Europe, after lawmakers voted to raise it to 70.
Parliamentarians passed a bill mandating the rise on Thursday, with 81 votes in favor and 21 against.
The new law will apply to people born after December 31, 1970. The current retirement age is 67 on average, but it can go up to 69 for those born on January 1, 1967, or later.
The rise is needed in order to be able to “afford proper welfare for future generations,” employment minister Ane Halsboe-Jørgensen said in a press release Thursday.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I am a teacher and I could not imagine staying in a classroom for another 7 years. I barely made it to 63. My retirement begins next week. I just hope 50k a year is enough. That was my goal and when I it it I said I am done.
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How are you gonna stop "the rich" from simply taking all of their digitally stored wealth and leaving the country that taxes them?
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, i'm just curious. With borders being more for show than anything and the ability to purchase a passport from countries with low or no income tax, how do you propose to stop them?
This is where the nationalists win against the globalists in all types of debate. They atleast have a strategy, even if it leads to other humanitarian problems. You have to start giving more of a shit about your own community, either by becoming rich and giving it back to the community or let the rich leave and deal with the aftermath of it.
Why haven't they already?
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Denmark is set to have the highest retirement age in Europe, after lawmakers voted to raise it to 70.
Parliamentarians passed a bill mandating the rise on Thursday, with 81 votes in favor and 21 against.
The new law will apply to people born after December 31, 1970. The current retirement age is 67 on average, but it can go up to 69 for those born on January 1, 1967, or later.
The rise is needed in order to be able to “afford proper welfare for future generations,” employment minister Ane Halsboe-Jørgensen said in a press release Thursday.
EuroSocdem moment
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why are so many people ok with raising the retirement age? it's literally of zero benefit to anyone who isn't insanely wealthy enough to just quit working whenever they want. if they ever worked in the first place
Because it's what the insanely wealthy want and that's the only thing that counts
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Part of it makes sense. We live longer and longer, retirement age is something that needs to be adjusted with the human lifespan.
The problem is that our idea of what "work" should be is so awful that people look forward to retiring, and logically complain if they are denied the opportunity.
If our Quality of life is increasing shouldn't we be working less and for shorter periods of our lives?
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It means more tax take and less superannuation spending. Depends on the country's superannuation system, of course.
That means more money available for all the things taxes are used for, many of which are very very necessary.
How can you justify cuts to the healthcare system because you claim to not have enough money, but then pay pensioners some thousand dollars a fortnight, regardless of what assets or other income they have?
Seems like they oughta tax the rich higher, not make the poorer work till they collapse
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Denmark is set to have the highest retirement age in Europe, after lawmakers voted to raise it to 70.
Parliamentarians passed a bill mandating the rise on Thursday, with 81 votes in favor and 21 against.
The new law will apply to people born after December 31, 1970. The current retirement age is 67 on average, but it can go up to 69 for those born on January 1, 1967, or later.
The rise is needed in order to be able to “afford proper welfare for future generations,” employment minister Ane Halsboe-Jørgensen said in a press release Thursday.
We’ve reached a point where my retirement plan involves suicide. It’s cheaper and I don’t want to go through all the health issues my parents are. Go to any nursing home and look at all the people so drugged up they have no idea where they are. People are just miserable and don’t even comprehend what is happening. That’s not living. That’s being kept alive by your family cause they are selfish.
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Part of it makes sense. We live longer and longer, retirement age is something that needs to be adjusted with the human lifespan.
The problem is that our idea of what "work" should be is so awful that people look forward to retiring, and logically complain if they are denied the opportunity.
You’ve seen a lot of oldies that are in working order after 60+? 70+? They are exceptions, not the norm. Longer isn’t healthier. Not on a functional level. Especially for those not in an office which is I think the majority.
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I am a teacher and I could not imagine staying in a classroom for another 7 years. I barely made it to 63. My retirement begins next week. I just hope 50k a year is enough. That was my goal and when I it it I said I am done.
Congrats on retirement! What are you planning on doing with your newfound freedom?
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i don't know what to tell you then, other than people might not be more excited to have kids knowing that they'll be working until they're 70. unless their plan is to move the entire family out of the country. which also makes the problem worse
I don't think this will affect people's desire to have children at all (Denmark's strong social security system has a much stronger, and positive, effect on that).
I am of child-having age and my decision is based around what my life would be like for the next 18 or so years, not would it would be like at retirement. If I were to think about that, possibly having someone around to help me out and let me retire earlier would probably be a very tiny nudge in favour of having children.
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I hate this argument.
If they're not paying their fair share of taxes then leaving is beneficial. It's like saying "yeah but if you ask the thieves to pay for their stolen goods they might leave the store"
What if they're paying their share/most of their share of taxes now, but a change pushes them into not doing so? These things ar enot all-or-nothing.
