Don't lecture us on peaceful Russia.
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I’m starting to hate people who are shortsighted (historically challenged) and blinkered (victims of hybrid warfare) enough to claim that Russia is not a threat to Europe.
If you don't see how the war between the west and russia is going you are literally blind.
https://www.itamilradar.com/2025/03/06/aerial-surveillance-over-the-baltic-nato-aircraft-on-mission/
If you don’t see how the war between the west and russia is going you are literally blind.
This doesn't even address what I said. Learn to troll harder.
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I think Russia is an imperialist monster and as such a threat to Europe, but most of Europe illegally invaded Iraq & Lybia and they deliver weapons and are mostly pro-Israel. So we’re not better we’re just not attacking our direct neighbors anymore.
Let's take all EU+ former EU+ eea countries = 31 countries
2003 invasion of Iraq:
USA, UK, Australia, Poland
2/31 = not most
Intervention in Libya 2011:
12/31 = still not most
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Your statement is outright false
My statement is not false:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
Even if we accept that a billion spend in war in russia equals to 3 billions spent in war in europe the narrative doesn't change much. EU countries combined are in the same league of military spendings of an imperialistic country.
Your statement that Europe has “nukes staked illegally all over the place” is as false as the link you provided is pointless. There’s nothing illegal except Russia’s aggression and invasion of Ukraine.
Not false again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing
"According to the former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, Italy's role in a planned retaliation consisted in striking with those nuclear weapons Czechoslovakia and Hungary had the Warsaw Pact waged nuclear war against NATO. He acknowledged the presence of U.S. nuclear weapons in Italy, and speculated about the possible presence of British and French nuclear weapons."
According to the former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, Italy's role in a planned retaliation consisted in striking with those nuclear weapons Czechoslovakia and Hungary had the Warsaw Pact waged nuclear war against NATO. He acknowledged the presence of U.S. nuclear weapons in Italy, and speculated about the possible presence of British and French nuclear weapons."
The former Czechoslovakia has emerged in two countries (Czech Republic and Slovakia, just in case you don't know), the Warsaw Pact dissolved more than 30 years ago. Francesco Cossiga was Italian President in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
And these are just three of your many weird statements that are completly irrelevant regarding Russia illegal and unprovoked aggression against Ukraine that started in 2014. Your false and obviously misleading statements discredit you.
You may wish to read a history book or two instead of the communities where you read this rubbish.
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Let's take all EU+ former EU+ eea countries = 31 countries
2003 invasion of Iraq:
USA, UK, Australia, Poland
2/31 = not most
Intervention in Libya 2011:
12/31 = still not most
Fair enough! I was confidently incorrect, thanks for correcting this.
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I’m starting to hate people who are shortsighted (historically challenged) and blinkered (victims of hybrid warfare) enough to claim that Russia is not a threat to Europe.
If you don't see how the war between the west and russia is going you are literally blind.
https://www.itamilradar.com/2025/03/06/aerial-surveillance-over-the-baltic-nato-aircraft-on-mission/
The defense alliance is doing patrol missions, well within their own airspace. And when Russian pilots "get lost" and violate our airspace, is that also NATO's fault? What's the problem?
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Care to give an example of an EU country that illegally annexed part of another country in the last 80 years or so?
80 years or so bring us back to 1945.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe#21st_century
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According to the former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, Italy's role in a planned retaliation consisted in striking with those nuclear weapons Czechoslovakia and Hungary had the Warsaw Pact waged nuclear war against NATO. He acknowledged the presence of U.S. nuclear weapons in Italy, and speculated about the possible presence of British and French nuclear weapons."
The former Czechoslovakia has emerged in two countries (Czech Republic and Slovakia, just in case you don't know), the Warsaw Pact dissolved more than 30 years ago. Francesco Cossiga was Italian President in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
And these are just three of your many weird statements that are completly irrelevant regarding Russia illegal and unprovoked aggression against Ukraine that started in 2014. Your false and obviously misleading statements discredit you.
You may wish to read a history book or two instead of the communities where you read this rubbish.
You sound like you are acting in total bad faith. This thread is about europe defence too and i'm highlighting that europe countries already spend billions in war. Combined they spend even more than russia in total usd and slightly less adjusted to the PPP you brought up.
I'm also pointing out that european countries defence is not weak and they have big scales war plans that aren't even made official to the public such as nukes staked illegally. You probably don't know but in italy this is illegal and it has never been made official for this reason but it's so common knowledge that wikipedia even has an estimate of the amount of nukes staked.
You may wish to read a history book or two instead of the communities where you read this rubbish.
I encourage you to do the same.
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The defense alliance is doing patrol missions, well within their own airspace. And when Russian pilots "get lost" and violate our airspace, is that also NATO's fault? What's the problem?
If china or russia were doing operations of this scale near USA it would be all over the news
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If china or russia were doing operations of this scale near USA it would be all over the news
It is. Do you not read the news?
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Don't lecture us on peaceful europe either.
European countries combined already spend tree times more in war than russia and they have nukes staked illegally all over the place:
I think the problem might not be how much they spent, but what they are doing with it.
Unless I'm mistaken, the real cost of the war people care about are Ukrainian civilians, not rubles. -
I'm starting to hate people who are shortsighted (historically challenged) and blinkered (victims of hybrid warfare) enough to claim that Russia is not as dangerous as we make it out to be.
Every resident of every Eastern European country bordering Russia will tell you how they took a piece of their home. Literally just snapping off a piece of their country and incorporating it into Russia. How even before Putin they talked about "protecting" "Russian" citizens of said countries (which opens up a whole new can of worms about displacement of original residents, a.k.a. genocide). How present the Russian military actually is, just across the border.
Apropos nothing here's a real conversation I had just a couple of days ago. Problem is, I like the guy. He's not a fascist. He's one of those people who say they're not political, but then cannot help themselves having an opinion anyhow. To his credit he was thoughtful and quiet after that short exchange:
Him: "You know, Putin doesn't really want war..."
Me: "What, he didn't want to invade Ukraine?"
"No, not like that. You know Tucker Carlson invited him on his show..."
"Actually, Fucker Tarlson went to Moscow."
"Yeah, anyhow, the long interview..."
"You mean Putin's monologue."
"Yes, but he said that he doesn't want war!"
"How friendly of him to protray himself like that for a large audience!"Of course Putin doesn't want war. To paraphrase Jon Stewart, even Hitler didn't want war. Hitler too wanted an end to the war, just not the end that he got
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Of course Putin doesn't want war. To paraphrase Jon Stewart, even Hitler didn't want war. Hitler too wanted an end to the war, just not the end that he got
Funny, I was re-thinking that exchange and me commenting about it just a couple of hours ago.
What the guy really said was more like (I'm translating): "he was peaceful, reasonable and friendly", esp. at the end there. I was snickering.
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I hear you but still I stand by my point, a rogue drone or two that accidentally got misguided… maybe into the Kremlin then instead of a hospital?
Pretty please? Pinky promise I have no malicious intent lmao.
I want Russian civilians to suffer a bit because they need to fucking get the hint and do something it they want to survive
Morale Bombing has never, ever, ever worked. It has been tried: Nazi Germany bombed the UK, the UK and US bombed Germany, the US leaned on it during the cold war in Korea and Vietnam, Russia did it to Ukraine. By and large the results have been the same: Civilians hate being bombed. They'll hate you for bombing them. They'll rally against you.
Bombing can influence the leadership decisions, if it damages target of value to the high and powerful, but the historical record on bombing civilians to make them oppose the war isn't just bad, is terribly one-sided. And it makes sense: If Russia were to bomb your hometown, would that make you want to surrender or fight back?
(And in case anyone thinks that Japan was defeated just by the nukes, nothing is ever that simple in war and Japan was on the back foot already. What the nukes achieved was that the political leadership, already distressed by the way the war was going, saw the sheer and unprecedented destructive power and opted to surrender. The civilians' will had little to do with it.)
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It is. Do you not read the news?
Within a few hundred miles of CONUS? No, I hadn't heard.
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Fair enough! I was confidently incorrect, thanks for correcting this.
and yet in this very same thread people are perfectly willing to bomb Russian civilians because they share responsibility because they live in the same country. Somehow this doesn't apply between countries in the EU, curious
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You sound like you are acting in total bad faith. This thread is about europe defence too and i'm highlighting that europe countries already spend billions in war. Combined they spend even more than russia in total usd and slightly less adjusted to the PPP you brought up.
I'm also pointing out that european countries defence is not weak and they have big scales war plans that aren't even made official to the public such as nukes staked illegally. You probably don't know but in italy this is illegal and it has never been made official for this reason but it's so common knowledge that wikipedia even has an estimate of the amount of nukes staked.
You may wish to read a history book or two instead of the communities where you read this rubbish.
I encourage you to do the same.
Maybe if European neighbours didn't cause so much tension, then there could have been a reduction in the billions spent on the military.
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and yet in this very same thread people are perfectly willing to bomb Russian civilians because they share responsibility because they live in the same country. Somehow this doesn't apply between countries in the EU, curious
Yeah I never really thought this specific hypocrisy through because it never occurred to me personally that it would be okay to ever bomb civilians, but I think you’re right. It’s a horrifying thing to think about really, but that is the level of warmongering we have reached. I actually really don’t see how it’s any better. European civilians wishing death to Russian civilians for wishing death to Ukrainian civilians. We Europeans will be able to justify why it’s okay when we do it and bad when others do it, as always. But no matter the explanation the result is the same, someone wishes people dead.
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Yeah I never really thought this specific hypocrisy through because it never occurred to me personally that it would be okay to ever bomb civilians, but I think you’re right. It’s a horrifying thing to think about really, but that is the level of warmongering we have reached. I actually really don’t see how it’s any better. European civilians wishing death to Russian civilians for wishing death to Ukrainian civilians. We Europeans will be able to justify why it’s okay when we do it and bad when others do it, as always. But no matter the explanation the result is the same, someone wishes people dead.
Ftr, those comments have (now) been removed. Not sure if it was you who reported them (I don't see that in Voyager, only in Photon). In any case, feel free to report such comments.
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Ftr, those comments have (now) been removed. Not sure if it was you who reported them (I don't see that in Voyager, only in Photon). In any case, feel free to report such comments.
Thank you! Appreciate that
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