Don't lecture us on peaceful Russia.
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Don't lecture us on peaceful europe either.
European countries combined already spend tree times more in war than russia and they have nukes staked illegally all over the place:
I think the problem might not be how much they spent, but what they are doing with it.
Unless I'm mistaken, the real cost of the war people care about are Ukrainian civilians, not rubles. -
I'm starting to hate people who are shortsighted (historically challenged) and blinkered (victims of hybrid warfare) enough to claim that Russia is not as dangerous as we make it out to be.
Every resident of every Eastern European country bordering Russia will tell you how they took a piece of their home. Literally just snapping off a piece of their country and incorporating it into Russia. How even before Putin they talked about "protecting" "Russian" citizens of said countries (which opens up a whole new can of worms about displacement of original residents, a.k.a. genocide). How present the Russian military actually is, just across the border.
Apropos nothing here's a real conversation I had just a couple of days ago. Problem is, I like the guy. He's not a fascist. He's one of those people who say they're not political, but then cannot help themselves having an opinion anyhow. To his credit he was thoughtful and quiet after that short exchange:
Him: "You know, Putin doesn't really want war..."
Me: "What, he didn't want to invade Ukraine?"
"No, not like that. You know Tucker Carlson invited him on his show..."
"Actually, Fucker Tarlson went to Moscow."
"Yeah, anyhow, the long interview..."
"You mean Putin's monologue."
"Yes, but he said that he doesn't want war!"
"How friendly of him to protray himself like that for a large audience!"Of course Putin doesn't want war. To paraphrase Jon Stewart, even Hitler didn't want war. Hitler too wanted an end to the war, just not the end that he got
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Of course Putin doesn't want war. To paraphrase Jon Stewart, even Hitler didn't want war. Hitler too wanted an end to the war, just not the end that he got
Funny, I was re-thinking that exchange and me commenting about it just a couple of hours ago.
What the guy really said was more like (I'm translating): "he was peaceful, reasonable and friendly", esp. at the end there. I was snickering.
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I hear you but still I stand by my point, a rogue drone or two that accidentally got misguided… maybe into the Kremlin then instead of a hospital?
Pretty please? Pinky promise I have no malicious intent lmao.
I want Russian civilians to suffer a bit because they need to fucking get the hint and do something it they want to survive
Morale Bombing has never, ever, ever worked. It has been tried: Nazi Germany bombed the UK, the UK and US bombed Germany, the US leaned on it during the cold war in Korea and Vietnam, Russia did it to Ukraine. By and large the results have been the same: Civilians hate being bombed. They'll hate you for bombing them. They'll rally against you.
Bombing can influence the leadership decisions, if it damages target of value to the high and powerful, but the historical record on bombing civilians to make them oppose the war isn't just bad, is terribly one-sided. And it makes sense: If Russia were to bomb your hometown, would that make you want to surrender or fight back?
(And in case anyone thinks that Japan was defeated just by the nukes, nothing is ever that simple in war and Japan was on the back foot already. What the nukes achieved was that the political leadership, already distressed by the way the war was going, saw the sheer and unprecedented destructive power and opted to surrender. The civilians' will had little to do with it.)
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It is. Do you not read the news?
Within a few hundred miles of CONUS? No, I hadn't heard.
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Fair enough! I was confidently incorrect, thanks for correcting this.
and yet in this very same thread people are perfectly willing to bomb Russian civilians because they share responsibility because they live in the same country. Somehow this doesn't apply between countries in the EU, curious
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You sound like you are acting in total bad faith. This thread is about europe defence too and i'm highlighting that europe countries already spend billions in war. Combined they spend even more than russia in total usd and slightly less adjusted to the PPP you brought up.
I'm also pointing out that european countries defence is not weak and they have big scales war plans that aren't even made official to the public such as nukes staked illegally. You probably don't know but in italy this is illegal and it has never been made official for this reason but it's so common knowledge that wikipedia even has an estimate of the amount of nukes staked.
You may wish to read a history book or two instead of the communities where you read this rubbish.
I encourage you to do the same.
Maybe if European neighbours didn't cause so much tension, then there could have been a reduction in the billions spent on the military.
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and yet in this very same thread people are perfectly willing to bomb Russian civilians because they share responsibility because they live in the same country. Somehow this doesn't apply between countries in the EU, curious
Yeah I never really thought this specific hypocrisy through because it never occurred to me personally that it would be okay to ever bomb civilians, but I think you’re right. It’s a horrifying thing to think about really, but that is the level of warmongering we have reached. I actually really don’t see how it’s any better. European civilians wishing death to Russian civilians for wishing death to Ukrainian civilians. We Europeans will be able to justify why it’s okay when we do it and bad when others do it, as always. But no matter the explanation the result is the same, someone wishes people dead.
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Yeah I never really thought this specific hypocrisy through because it never occurred to me personally that it would be okay to ever bomb civilians, but I think you’re right. It’s a horrifying thing to think about really, but that is the level of warmongering we have reached. I actually really don’t see how it’s any better. European civilians wishing death to Russian civilians for wishing death to Ukrainian civilians. We Europeans will be able to justify why it’s okay when we do it and bad when others do it, as always. But no matter the explanation the result is the same, someone wishes people dead.
Ftr, those comments have (now) been removed. Not sure if it was you who reported them (I don't see that in Voyager, only in Photon). In any case, feel free to report such comments.
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Ftr, those comments have (now) been removed. Not sure if it was you who reported them (I don't see that in Voyager, only in Photon). In any case, feel free to report such comments.
Thank you! Appreciate that
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