As Germany’s defence stocks go ballistic, armsmakers are tooling up
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Even during the World Wars the defence industry wasn't wholly nationalised.
37% of Rheinmetall's shares are owned by NA investors, none individually control more than 6%. And no, Rheinmetall wasn't founded by Nazis. It predates the Nazis by decades, the company was founded in the same year Hitler was born in. And even if it was, why would that matter today? The company is not owned by the people who founded it. It's not even owned by their descendants (who still would not be the same people).
They are also NOT selling to both sides. I'm not even disputing that they wouldn't, they might well want to, but they literally can't. They're not allowed to and that is enforced.
Ah, because Nazis in Germany magically appeared with Hitlers birth and all magically disappeared when he committed suicide?
As I already said elsewhere, Rheinmetall itself might not sell, but the profits go to people that can invest them into other businesses that can sell and/or otherwise support fascists regimes around the world.
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If people were as serious about it as they pretend to be, we would be talking about nationalizing those defense industries.
You know who the biggest shareholders of Rheinmetall are? US American investment fonds linked to fascists. And the original founders of all these German companies? Yeah, litteral Nazis.
They are of course happy to sell to both sides. They always do.
I'm fairly certain any company deciding to supply arms to both their country and its enemy would immediately be charged with treason
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So do you propose you and I start an arms cooperative this afternoon? I don't exactly disapprove, it's what I might have done in the 50s, yet we're out of time.
No, I am saying if people truely believed that we are in a situation of existential risk, then the German government would be talking about nationalizing existing companies like Rheinmetall.
That they are not talking about that at all, tells us a lot about their true motivations.
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How is the ownership structure of an already existing company relevant to it's capability to produce the outputs necessary? If anything they will be more able to produce the needed things if a large part of the money isn't siphoned off to US American investment fonds.
On what grounds? Are you suggesting a soviet style government takeover of existing business? If you would like to do it in the "civilized way" you would have to buy that business and while it might be profitable in a very long run it would cost you much more now just (and state owned companies tend to get less efficient).
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I'm fairly certain any company deciding to supply arms to both their country and its enemy would immediately be charged with treason
Sure for individual companies, but what about their owners?
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No, I am saying if people truely believed that we are in a situation of existential risk, then the German government would be talking about nationalizing existing companies like Rheinmetall.
That they are not talking about that at all, tells us a lot about their true motivations.
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Sure for individual companies, but what about their owners?
Bet most governments would question where the owner got the bazooka from if it's not coming from the company
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On what grounds? Are you suggesting a soviet style government takeover of existing business? If you would like to do it in the "civilized way" you would have to buy that business and while it might be profitable in a very long run it would cost you much more now just (and state owned companies tend to get less efficient).
The German constitution allows this kind of nationalization in times of crisis.
My suggestion would be to refund these speculators the (inflation adjusted) pre-war value of the stock. That's currently less than a tenth of the current stock price, to give you an idea how much they have already profitted.
And it is a bit funny to argue state owned companies are less efficient and the same time fear-monger about the Russian war economy that is now fully state controlled. But yes, in times of peace when companies can freely chose what to produce, non-state owned companies tend to be more efficient.
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The German constitution allows this kind of nationalization in times of crisis.
My suggestion would be to refund these speculators the (inflation adjusted) pre-war value of the stock. That's currently less than a tenth of the current stock price, to give you an idea how much they have already profitted.
And it is a bit funny to argue state owned companies are less efficient and the same time fear-monger about the Russian war economy that is now fully state controlled. But yes, in times of peace when companies can freely chose what to produce, non-state owned companies tend to be more efficient.
Russia has allocated 25% of its current (2025) budget to military spending.
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Yeah keep sticking your fingers in your ears and pretend everything is fine
You're not even listening. Probably haven't even read my comments. I never suggested that everything is fine.
I'm just pointing out your constraint world view. If you don't change it, your frustration will just end up in more frustration. Emotional and irrational people are being stomped on or ignored at best. You won't accomplish anything.
The first step towards change is accepting the current situation and using it for your best advantage.
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You're not even listening. Probably haven't even read my comments. I never suggested that everything is fine.
I'm just pointing out your constraint world view. If you don't change it, your frustration will just end up in more frustration. Emotional and irrational people are being stomped on or ignored at best. You won't accomplish anything.
The first step towards change is accepting the current situation and using it for your best advantage.
Says the person that literally just held a sermon on the core believes of capitalism that have very little to do with the real world
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Bet most governments would question where the owner got the bazooka from if it's not coming from the company
It's coming from another company that owner owns. We are talking about huge multinational investment fonds here.
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I hope some people will finally realize who really profits from all the increased defense spending. Because the people of Ukraine will not be it.
Because wars are for the profit of the people, right? The people of Ukraine will be busy for half a century or more paying back the US already.
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It's coming from another company that owner owns. We are talking about huge multinational investment fonds here.
Mate what.
It's not like the state is oblivious to ownership.
If a person own a company in another country that sells armaments to an enemy country, the stat would smack down on that so hard. -
Mate what.
It's not like the state is oblivious to ownership.
If a person own a company in another country that sells armaments to an enemy country, the stat would smack down on that so hard.On an US American investment fund? How exactly do you think the German government is going to "smack down" on that?
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Paywall? https://archive.is/uSwsF
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Ah, because Nazis in Germany magically appeared with Hitlers birth and all magically disappeared when he committed suicide?
As I already said elsewhere, Rheinmetall itself might not sell, but the profits go to people that can invest them into other businesses that can sell and/or otherwise support fascists regimes around the world.
Rheinmetall was founded in 1889. The NSDAP was founded after the 1st world war. There's literally no way Nazis founded Rheinmetall because it predates Nazism by about thirty years.
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And look where this kind of thinking got us: Ecological collapse and the climate catastrophe. Have fun eating money I guess
I think both things have some points.
You're right that military industries should be nationalized, and I agree to a degree (I'd also rather not have the military industry power be 100% controlled by the state, so maybe 50% only).
But also capitalism, if done as it was designed to be done and heavily regulated, can also spark innovation.
Battery technology was in part invented really early on because someone wanted to get wealthy by creating a better mode of transport than the piston engine for example (it's older tech than people realize). The issue was that once the piston engine was growing in popularity, there wasn't heavy handed regulations in order to slow down it's growth and prevent them and eventually the oil companies from using their new power to stifle electrics research.
I don't think the solution to capitalism's (and democracy's by extension) downfalls has been invented or even solved on paper yet. But in the meantime, something in the middle might be the best solution than either extreme.
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Rheinmetall was founded in 1889. The NSDAP was founded after the 1st world war. There's literally no way Nazis founded Rheinmetall because it predates Nazism by about thirty years.
I wasn't only talking about Rheinmetall, and while the Rheinmetall founder died in 1923, the company went on to be a major part in the Nazi war production.
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I wasn't only talking about Rheinmetall, and while the Rheinmetall founder died in 1923, the company went on to be a major part in the Nazi war production.
Can't wait to see how you move the goal posts next!
