Trump, Netanyahu and Khamenei – three angry old men who could get us all killed
-
This was not inevitable. This is a war Israel chose. It could have been prevented. Diplomatic talks were ongoing when the bombers took off for Iran. Israel’s continuing, illegal, unjustified airstrikes are unlikely to achieve their stated aim – permanently ending Tehran’s presumed efforts to build nuclear weapons – and may accelerate it. They must stop now. Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
This conflict is not limited, as was the case last year, to tit-for-tat exchanges and “precision strikes” on a narrow range of military targets. It’s reached a wholly different level. Potentially nothing is off the table. Civilians are being killed on both sides. Leaders are targets. The rhetoric is out of control. With Israel fighting on several fronts, and Iran’s battered regime backed against a wall, the Middle East is closer than ever to a disastrous conflagration.
Reasons can always be found to go to war. The roots of major conflicts often reach back decades – and this is true of the Israel-Iran vendetta, which dates to the 1979 Islamic revolution. The so-called “shadow war” between the two intensified in recent years. Yet all-out conflict had been avoided, until now. So who is principally to blame for this sudden, unprecedented explosion?
Answer: three angry old men whose behaviour raises serious doubts about their judgment, common sense, motives and even their sanity.
The Zygon Inversion - A Transcript of The Doctor's Speech [edited for brevity]
The Doctor:
You just want cruelty to beget cruelty. You're not superior to people who were cruel to you. You're just a whole bunch of new cruel people. A whole bunch of new cruel people, being cruel to some other people, who'll end up being cruel to you. The only way anyone can live in peace is if they're prepared to forgive. Why don't you break the cycle?Bonnie: Why should we?
The Doctor: What is it that you actually want?
Bonnie: War.
The Doctor: Ah. And when this war is over, when -- when you have the homeland free from humans, what do you think it's going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you're very close to getting what you want. What's it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? What'll be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who will make the violins? Well? Oh, You don't actually know, do you? Because, just like every other tantruming child in history, Bonnie, you don't actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad guys, and it's all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?
. . .
The Doctor: This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning -- sit down and talk!
Listen to me, listen. I just -- I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It's just a fancy word for changing your mind. -
Don't forget Putin...
Fuck thes old, power-hungry war-mongering pieces of excrement. Their death will be celebrated by millions.
Please put an age restriction on politicians, it would solev sooo much nonsense.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Putin is by far the worst one.
Neither Netanyahu nor Khamenei have the capacity for war the way the other 2 have.
And Putin already has achieved what Trump wants to achieve: being a dictator with full control of the state.
Oh how much the world would improve if all 4 of them suddenly get a bullet between the eyes.
-
This article is fine, but kind of superfluous.
We get it. Everyone can see this. If you don't have actionable advice or some additional insight, you're really just reporting that water is wet.
-
Khameni didn't want a war
So far also Iran only matched target groups after Israel targeted them first. E.g. Israel strikes MoD offices in Tehran -> Iran strikes back at the MoD in Tel Aviv. Israels strikes Iranian gas and electrical infrastructure -> Iran strikes back at Israeli Gas and electrical infrastructure.
Iran doesn't want this war and keeps reiterating to go back to diplomacy, however the US and multiple G7 countries, especially UK, France and Germany are rattling the sabres more, defending Israels onslaught while condemning Irans responses. These countries claiming they would seek a diplomatic solution makes for rather cynical lies when they cover the attacker and condemn the defender.
-
So far also Iran only matched target groups after Israel targeted them first. E.g. Israel strikes MoD offices in Tehran -> Iran strikes back at the MoD in Tel Aviv. Israels strikes Iranian gas and electrical infrastructure -> Iran strikes back at Israeli Gas and electrical infrastructure.
Iran doesn't want this war and keeps reiterating to go back to diplomacy, however the US and multiple G7 countries, especially UK, France and Germany are rattling the sabres more, defending Israels onslaught while condemning Irans responses. These countries claiming they would seek a diplomatic solution makes for rather cynical lies when they cover the attacker and condemn the defender.
No doubt Israel started this iteration but to say that Iran doesn't want war is viewing the regime too favourably. Of course they don't want war on Iranian territory - but they do want to directly sponsor Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, al-Assad (until he fell), and other mostly Shia militias while severely oppressing their own population - especially minorities. Fuck Israel but it's not like Iran comes with peaceful intentions. My parents fled from this regime, and while virtually no Iranian supports Israel's actions or wants war, most of us wouldn't shed a single tear if the entire regime were wiped out.
-
You are out of touch if you think Trump is worse than Khamenei
EDIT: Lemmy, wake me up when Trump orders to kill the protestets, because by every passing day most of you look more and more delusional to me, lost in your own hate. Feels weird defending trump, but there is a day and night difference between the two. See what Iranians themselves are saying.
Trump is actively helping to exterminate hundreds of thousands in Gaza. He is orders of magnitude worse than Khamenei
-
Khamenei maybe an angry old man considering his country is facing an existential threat but Netanyahu is a wanted war criminal and Trump is a rapist with nefarious ties to the notorious Epstein
Stop pretending like Khamenei isn't a criminal. He's not just an angry old man because they're "facing an existential threat" he's a fuckwad through and through and no Iranian would shed a tear if he was shelled. Israel certainly started this iteration of the conflict but Khamenei and the regime has a rap sheet far longer than Trump's.
-
I think many people learned the wrong lesson from GWB's Iraq War. It was presented as (among other things) a way to stop an enemy of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons and it was a mistake, so they conclude that using force to stop enemies of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons is a mistake. However, using force (if necessary) to stop enemies of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons is a prudent idea and the problem with that Iraq War was that it was not actually fought for that purpose. GWB was the boy who cried wolf but real wolves still exist.
Imagine arguing that people thinking you shouldn't launch unprovoked wars of aggression, is a bad thing
-
This was not inevitable. This is a war Israel chose. It could have been prevented. Diplomatic talks were ongoing when the bombers took off for Iran. Israel’s continuing, illegal, unjustified airstrikes are unlikely to achieve their stated aim – permanently ending Tehran’s presumed efforts to build nuclear weapons – and may accelerate it. They must stop now. Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
This conflict is not limited, as was the case last year, to tit-for-tat exchanges and “precision strikes” on a narrow range of military targets. It’s reached a wholly different level. Potentially nothing is off the table. Civilians are being killed on both sides. Leaders are targets. The rhetoric is out of control. With Israel fighting on several fronts, and Iran’s battered regime backed against a wall, the Middle East is closer than ever to a disastrous conflagration.
Reasons can always be found to go to war. The roots of major conflicts often reach back decades – and this is true of the Israel-Iran vendetta, which dates to the 1979 Islamic revolution. The so-called “shadow war” between the two intensified in recent years. Yet all-out conflict had been avoided, until now. So who is principally to blame for this sudden, unprecedented explosion?
Answer: three angry old men whose behaviour raises serious doubts about their judgment, common sense, motives and even their sanity.
Trust The Guardian to "both-sides" a blatant war of aggression and just completely fail to mention the massive genocide Israel is carrying out.
-
No doubt Israel started this iteration but to say that Iran doesn't want war is viewing the regime too favourably. Of course they don't want war on Iranian territory - but they do want to directly sponsor Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, al-Assad (until he fell), and other mostly Shia militias while severely oppressing their own population - especially minorities. Fuck Israel but it's not like Iran comes with peaceful intentions. My parents fled from this regime, and while virtually no Iranian supports Israel's actions or wants war, most of us wouldn't shed a single tear if the entire regime were wiped out.
Iran doesn’t want this war
No doubt Iran has acted in aggressive ways in other places. However it seemed to not have directed its aggression directly at Israel. People keep claiming that Iran would have orchestrated October 7, but if it had, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iranian proxies in Syria and Iraq would have joined in full force. So Iran wasn't interested in a confrontation with Israel in the past years either.
-
This was not inevitable. This is a war Israel chose. It could have been prevented. Diplomatic talks were ongoing when the bombers took off for Iran. Israel’s continuing, illegal, unjustified airstrikes are unlikely to achieve their stated aim – permanently ending Tehran’s presumed efforts to build nuclear weapons – and may accelerate it. They must stop now. Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
This conflict is not limited, as was the case last year, to tit-for-tat exchanges and “precision strikes” on a narrow range of military targets. It’s reached a wholly different level. Potentially nothing is off the table. Civilians are being killed on both sides. Leaders are targets. The rhetoric is out of control. With Israel fighting on several fronts, and Iran’s battered regime backed against a wall, the Middle East is closer than ever to a disastrous conflagration.
Reasons can always be found to go to war. The roots of major conflicts often reach back decades – and this is true of the Israel-Iran vendetta, which dates to the 1979 Islamic revolution. The so-called “shadow war” between the two intensified in recent years. Yet all-out conflict had been avoided, until now. So who is principally to blame for this sudden, unprecedented explosion?
Answer: three angry old men whose behaviour raises serious doubts about their judgment, common sense, motives and even their sanity.
False equivalencies.
-
Putin is by far the worst one.
Neither Netanyahu nor Khamenei have the capacity for war the way the other 2 have.
And Putin already has achieved what Trump wants to achieve: being a dictator with full control of the state.
Oh how much the world would improve if all 4 of them suddenly get a bullet between the eyes.
How is Putin worse than Netanyahu? Just compare the children death toll in Palestine vs. Ukraine.
-
Iran doesn’t want this war
No doubt Iran has acted in aggressive ways in other places. However it seemed to not have directed its aggression directly at Israel. People keep claiming that Iran would have orchestrated October 7, but if it had, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iranian proxies in Syria and Iraq would have joined in full force. So Iran wasn't interested in a confrontation with Israel in the past years either.
Oh absolutely, this one is on Israel for sure. Just important to note that it's not like the Iranian regime is made up of pacifists
-
Khameni didn't want a war
Because they know they'll lose it as things currently stand.
That's why they've been trying to build nukes.
-
I think many people learned the wrong lesson from GWB's Iraq War. It was presented as (among other things) a way to stop an enemy of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons and it was a mistake, so they conclude that using force to stop enemies of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons is a mistake. However, using force (if necessary) to stop enemies of the USA from obtaining nuclear weapons is a prudent idea and the problem with that Iraq War was that it was not actually fought for that purpose. GWB was the boy who cried wolf but real wolves still exist.
Why should Israel have nuclear weapons but not Iran?
-
Illegal, maybe. But... Unjustified? Maybe the author is unaware of Isreal's recent divulgence of Iran's plan to sprint for a nuke while its militant religious zealots in Hamas and Hizbullah are hobbled? Or how openly the mullahs state that they will use it?
Israel has nuclear weapons, its neighbours that it threatens have every right to nuclear weapons. You just want Israel to achieve its expansionist goals with no pushback.
-
Illegal, maybe. But... Unjustified? Maybe the author is unaware of Isreal's recent divulgence of Iran's plan to sprint for a nuke while its militant religious zealots in Hamas and Hizbullah are hobbled? Or how openly the mullahs state that they will use it?
Surely nobody has ever lied about the military capability of a country it wanted to attack...
-
How is Putin worse than Netanyahu? Just compare the children death toll in Palestine vs. Ukraine.
Don't mistake Ukraine's ability for self-defense as Putin's mercy.
-
Because they know they'll lose it as things currently stand.
That's why they've been trying to build nukes.
First of all: It’s not clear that they want nukes. Like, seriously, they have been accused of almost having nukes for thirty years, it’s much more plausible at this point that they are much more interested in the ability to acquire them quickly in case they need them.
But even then: It makes no sense for them to use them aggressively, but it makes an unbelievable amount of sense for them to want them for defensive purposes. Like: They have time and time suffered from western interference, including the extremely bloody Iran-Iraq-war and have a hostile, nazi-run rouge state running a genocide and storing nukes without NPT-approval that is receiving unlimited support from the US in their vicinity.
The fact of the matter is that there is no country on earth that is as justified in pursuing a nuclear deterrent on earth as Iran.
And none of that changes anything about the government being made up from horrible tyrants that are almost as bad (but definitely not actually as bad, let alone worse!) as the one in Israel. They absolutely should be overthrown, but that’s not the job for the genocidal nazis in Israel.
-
Israel has nuclear weapons, its neighbours that it threatens have every right to nuclear weapons. You just want Israel to achieve its expansionist goals with no pushback.
Despite having nuclear weapons and not being a party to the NPT, Israel has never threatened to use them.
Unlike Iran and most of its neighbors which threaten to destroy Israel every chance they get.
