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  3. Too bad we can't have good public transportation

Too bad we can't have good public transportation

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Lemmy Shitpost
lemmyshitpost
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  • S [email protected]

    Explain the sinking just finished metro. The ghost towns. The buildings collapsing. The bridges decaying because of concrete rot.
    There are so many current projects going bad because of the use of bad materials and dodgy practices.
    Skipping a geo research before building etc.

    The Chinese are surpressed by the CCP. More than 90% of the drinking water is not fit for consumption. Aside from the AI cleaned up videos and pictures, there isn't much of a clear sky with the smog.

    And where are the birds?

    ... Also have you seen China. They too have traffic jams.

    No country is a wonderland.
    And if someone is really really really trying to convince me they are that magnificent, and better than everyone else.
    I. Do. Not. Trust. Them.

    Actions say more than words. And the actions have spoken.

    B This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote last edited by
    #68

    Source: it came to me in a dream.

    S 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • R [email protected]

      I wonder if the early proliferation of rural cars / mega expressways kinda fucked us. When your transportation network grows around trains, upgrading the trains/rails makes good economic sense. We just kind of spread out everywhere quickly and made the train locations somewhat irrelevant.

      P This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote last edited by
      #69

      No the auto industry has lobbied against trains and similar projects. It’s not about the science but more about how our politicians have been selling their souls for centuries.

      R P 2 Replies Last reply
      10
      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG [email protected]

        actually China's CO2 hasn't gone up in the past 12 months: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-clean-energy-just-put-chinas-co2-emissions-into-reverse-for-first-time/

        it's likely that china has reached its CO2 emission peak, and now they're beginning to fall.

        T This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote last edited by
        #70

        This is a good point, however the me meme is comparing to 1996. I think there's some way to go until it drops back that far.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • D [email protected]

          America: if ain’t broke don’t fix it
          Every other country: yah it’s time, what are our new requirements?

          B This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote last edited by
          #71

          And then turn a blind eye to all the broken stuff because "we have been living with it so it's not broken"

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          • T [email protected]

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_China

            empty cities

            Not so empty anymore, and calling them empty was bullshit.

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            wrote last edited by
            #72

            Turns out when you decide to build a new city, of course it would be empty at first, then people will eventually move in. But we can't do that because we need to preserve the artificial scarcity of housing so they can be used as an investment.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • P [email protected]

              No the auto industry has lobbied against trains and similar projects. It’s not about the science but more about how our politicians have been selling their souls for centuries.

              R This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote last edited by
              #73

              Pretty much part of the plot from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

              1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • R [email protected]

                I wonder if the early proliferation of rural cars / mega expressways kinda fucked us. When your transportation network grows around trains, upgrading the trains/rails makes good economic sense. We just kind of spread out everywhere quickly and made the train locations somewhat irrelevant.

                R This user is from outside of this forum
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                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by
                #74

                If anything, shouldn't that make it easier? The US has quite open and wide streets/roads. You have more space to build stations and rail tracks than for example Europe with much narrower streets/roads.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • P [email protected]

                  No the auto industry has lobbied against trains and similar projects. It’s not about the science but more about how our politicians have been selling their souls for centuries.

                  P This user is from outside of this forum
                  P This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote last edited by
                  #75

                  People choose those politicians, too sensitive for fear of even slightly bigger government. Paired with racism, nowadays.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • M [email protected]
                    This post did not contain any content.
                    lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL This user is from outside of this forum
                    lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote last edited by [email protected]
                    #76

                    Right now, the Chinese government has effective eminent domain powers which allows them to acquire property for which to build public infrastructure, both expressways and high-speed railways. That the Chinese people have no questions about the positives regarding HSTs, especially crunchtime during holidays where railway stations would be jampacked. That they're rolling their HSTs to show their technological prowess.

                    Why the US HST programs and passenger rail transport in general are at glacial pace is partly because of the usual car lobby, because of NIMBYs, because of cheap air transport, and some people now on online gambling instead of touching grass and tossing dice in Vegas.

                    A T 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • A [email protected]

                      You could say the same about pretty much any infrastructure. It’s hideously expensive and will never get paid back by utilization.

                      • highways
                      • local roads
                      • bridges
                      • air traffic control
                      • utilities of most kinds
                      • canals
                      • flood control
                      • erosion mitigation

                      All are hideously expensive and will never get paid back by utilization.

                      Are they all bad investments?

                      I claim they all are critical for their indirect benefits to an economy, a society, and rail is exactly the same.

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                      wrote last edited by [email protected]
                      #77

                      I would say that there's quite a lot of reason to believe that infrastructure investments can be one of the best ways to help poor people rise economically. Which has obvious paybacks.

                      https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/infrastructure/publication/infrastructure-and-poverty-reduction-innovative-policies

                      This still requires creating infrastructure that is actually needed, otherwise it's just wasting money (which ultimately is just an abstraction over wealth, opportunity, materials, workers' finite time and energy, etc etc).

                      A 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • M [email protected]
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        prior_industry@lemmy.worldP This user is from outside of this forum
                        prior_industry@lemmy.worldP This user is from outside of this forum
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                        wrote last edited by
                        #78

                        Hyperloop any day now!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        3
                        • lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL [email protected]

                          Right now, the Chinese government has effective eminent domain powers which allows them to acquire property for which to build public infrastructure, both expressways and high-speed railways. That the Chinese people have no questions about the positives regarding HSTs, especially crunchtime during holidays where railway stations would be jampacked. That they're rolling their HSTs to show their technological prowess.

                          Why the US HST programs and passenger rail transport in general are at glacial pace is partly because of the usual car lobby, because of NIMBYs, because of cheap air transport, and some people now on online gambling instead of touching grass and tossing dice in Vegas.

                          A This user is from outside of this forum
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                          wrote last edited by
                          #79

                          Right now, the Chinese government has effective eminent domain powers which allows them to acquire property for which to build public infrastructure, both expressways and high-speed railways

                          I've heard people claim as much, but at the same time, Stuck Nail Houses exist, I'm not sure how to reconcile the two. I think it's that their eminent domain is limited to property that was purchased after a certain point, so if it's property your parents owned since the 80s, it's literally easier for developers to route the highway around your home than win that lawsuit, but if they bought in like 2010, they can just give you a similar or better property, or the cash to buy one, and that's that.

                          rustydomino@lemmy.worldR lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL 2 Replies Last reply
                          2
                          • A [email protected]

                            Right now, the Chinese government has effective eminent domain powers which allows them to acquire property for which to build public infrastructure, both expressways and high-speed railways

                            I've heard people claim as much, but at the same time, Stuck Nail Houses exist, I'm not sure how to reconcile the two. I think it's that their eminent domain is limited to property that was purchased after a certain point, so if it's property your parents owned since the 80s, it's literally easier for developers to route the highway around your home than win that lawsuit, but if they bought in like 2010, they can just give you a similar or better property, or the cash to buy one, and that's that.

                            rustydomino@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                            rustydomino@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote last edited by
                            #80

                            stuck nail houses 釘子戶 may apply in limited situations but there is no such thing as land ownership in China. When you purchase real estate in China you are buying the right to use the land for a period of time (I think it’s 80 years but don’t quote me on that number, I’m going off memory here) but the state owns the land. When the party wants to build something they are going to build it.

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                            • B [email protected]

                              Source: it came to me in a dream.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #81

                              Source.
                              Straight out of mainland China. Not all does get stopped by the Firewall.

                              B 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • S [email protected]

                                It's been 16 years and counting.

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote last edited by
                                #82

                                This one is from 2024
                                Let that sink in
                                Home not alone, just unfinished

                                One swallow does not make it summer.
                                Shall we continue this path to see which one runs out first of resources?

                                S 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • J [email protected]

                                  Well I don't really have any reason to doubt the quality of the rail system. It's one thing to go over-budget on transit (which they apparently did); it's quite another to go over-budget and build the whole system to a poor standard where it won't even last.

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #83

                                  I hope that you are right but I doubt it.

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                                  • J [email protected]

                                    as much as I'd like to call this a win for socialism, I don't think socialism is actually necessary for good transit. Japan is very capitalist and has private rail networks which are comparable in quality and extent to China's.

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #84

                                    the "Socialism" is in quotes as were aren't really talking about actual socialism. Its now a boogeyman dogwhistle used by rich people to steal public property and convert it into private capital.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL [email protected]

                                      Right now, the Chinese government has effective eminent domain powers which allows them to acquire property for which to build public infrastructure, both expressways and high-speed railways. That the Chinese people have no questions about the positives regarding HSTs, especially crunchtime during holidays where railway stations would be jampacked. That they're rolling their HSTs to show their technological prowess.

                                      Why the US HST programs and passenger rail transport in general are at glacial pace is partly because of the usual car lobby, because of NIMBYs, because of cheap air transport, and some people now on online gambling instead of touching grass and tossing dice in Vegas.

                                      T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #85

                                      Doesnt the us also have those powers and didn't they use them liberally in the construction of both the railways and interstates?

                                      lechekaflan@lemmy.worldL 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • M [email protected]
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #86

                                        Well, the most efficient form of government is a dictatorship, which nobody want except the dictator.

                                        An inefficient government has groups investigating other groups to see if what they are doing is correct. This process takes time, so things move much slower. But is generally a much better protection against corruption.

                                        R F 2 Replies Last reply
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                                        • H [email protected]

                                          Well, the most efficient form of government is a dictatorship, which nobody want except the dictator.

                                          An inefficient government has groups investigating other groups to see if what they are doing is correct. This process takes time, so things move much slower. But is generally a much better protection against corruption.

                                          R This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #87

                                          You say that, but... Iraq was a dictatorship, and they weren't all that efficient at anything other than killing Kurds.

                                          N 1 Reply Last reply
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