Europe goes into daylight saving time despite controversy
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Summary
Most European countries moved clocks forward one hour on Sunday, marking the start of daylight saving time (DST), a practice increasingly criticized.
Originally introduced during World War I to conserve energy, DST returned during the 1970s oil crisis and now shifts Central European Time to Central European Summer Time.
Despite a 2018 EU consultation where 84% of nearly 4 million respondents supported abolishing DST, implementation stalled due to member state disagreement.
Poland, currently holding the EU presidency, plans informal consultations to revisit the issue amid broader geopolitical priorities.
I will never understand why people want the time we only use for 3 months to be the time we use for the whole year. I would rather people just be able to admit that December is dark (for the northern hemisphere) and we can do shit at a different time.
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Mid-day should be the middle of the day.
Mid-night should be the middle of the night.You'd need new clocks, those times drift every day, so 12:00 midday would need to change automatically.
It also depends on your location within your particular time zone. You can't have noon at the same time of day on both the eastern and western end of the zone.
We aren't all having the same argument. Solar noon should, indeed, be close to chronological noon, but that will only ever be true in the center of the time zone.
On "standard time" on the western end of a time zone, solar noon is (ostensibly) 11:30 am, while on the eastern end, it's 12:30. Under DST, those times shift to 12:30 and 13:30, respectively. In zones wider than 15 degrees, there can be more than an hour difference.
When the eastern end of the zone argues for permanent Standard Time, and the western end of the zone argues for permanent DST, both ends are arguing for the same preference.
"Midday" (solar noon) should indeed be close to noon, but midday should never be before 12:00pm.
The solution is to lock the clocks on one system or the other, and allow political subdivisions to move the line so their clocks work best for them.
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Summary
Most European countries moved clocks forward one hour on Sunday, marking the start of daylight saving time (DST), a practice increasingly criticized.
Originally introduced during World War I to conserve energy, DST returned during the 1970s oil crisis and now shifts Central European Time to Central European Summer Time.
Despite a 2018 EU consultation where 84% of nearly 4 million respondents supported abolishing DST, implementation stalled due to member state disagreement.
Poland, currently holding the EU presidency, plans informal consultations to revisit the issue amid broader geopolitical priorities.
No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
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You can keep 1 hour time zones just fine. It still puts moon within 1 hour of mid day, which you don’t get with DST.
I can accept that. So long as after we lock the clocks on standard time, my region is allowed to switch to the next time zone to the west.
I don't think the "noon = midday" argument is complete. I think noon should be close to, but never before midday. Midday should never occur at 11:30 AM, like it currently does on the western ends of the zones.
If you are arguing for permanent standard time and you are on the eastern end of your time zone, you are making the same argument as someone advocating DST from the western end.
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But... That's already the case even with timezones...
Imagine going to work and writing March 31st on documents all morning, and April 1st all afternoon.
You might remember that you have an appointment on the 5th. But, when you wake up on the 5th, you've already missed it.
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No, the objection is to DST. Noon should be approximately at noon.
I’d take permanent DST over the current retarded shit show though.
Noon should be as close to midday as possible but never before midday.
On standard time, on the west end of the time zones, midday occurs at or before 11:30 AM. That is ridiculous.
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I will never understand why people want the time we only use for 3 months to be the time we use for the whole year. I would rather people just be able to admit that December is dark (for the northern hemisphere) and we can do shit at a different time.
I literally couldn’t care less which time we pick, I just want the madness to STOP
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To people thinking of enforcing UTC around the globe:
obligatory: https://qntm.org/abolish
Before I read this article, I also thought it would be a great idea to get rid of timezones entirely and just use UTC for everything. To quote from the link,
Abolishing time zones brings many benefits, I hope. It also:
- causes the question “What time is it there?” to be useless/unanswerable
- necessitates significant changes to the way in which normal people talk about time
- convolutes timetables, where present
- means “days” (of the week) are no longer the same as “days”
- complicates both secular and religious law
- is a staggering inconvenience for a minimum of five billion people
- makes it near-impossible to reason about time in other parts of the world
- does not mean everybody gets up at the same time, goes to work at the same time, or goes to bed at the same time
- is not simpler.
As long as humans live in more than one part of the world, solar time is always going to be subjective. Abolishing time zones only exacerbates this problem.
(copied from one of my 9-month old comments)
UTC all around the world is a completely different thing than UTC (or UTC+1) all over Europe. China also spans just over three natural timezones and they get by just fine with one.
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Noon should be as close to midday as possible but never before midday.
On standard time, on the west end of the time zones, midday occurs at or before 11:30 AM. That is ridiculous.
I’m okay with that plan, although I’m curious why you find it so important.
In any case that’s a problem with the layout of time zones not with DST.
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Well if you pick permanent summer time it's gonna be light hella late in winter so you might not know it but it might matter much to you. Although I don't know you and maybe it truly wouldnt matter to you
So, you're saying that there might actually be some daylight left to do something after the work day / school day is over?
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To people thinking of enforcing UTC around the globe:
obligatory: https://qntm.org/abolish
Before I read this article, I also thought it would be a great idea to get rid of timezones entirely and just use UTC for everything. To quote from the link,
Abolishing time zones brings many benefits, I hope. It also:
- causes the question “What time is it there?” to be useless/unanswerable
- necessitates significant changes to the way in which normal people talk about time
- convolutes timetables, where present
- means “days” (of the week) are no longer the same as “days”
- complicates both secular and religious law
- is a staggering inconvenience for a minimum of five billion people
- makes it near-impossible to reason about time in other parts of the world
- does not mean everybody gets up at the same time, goes to work at the same time, or goes to bed at the same time
- is not simpler.
As long as humans live in more than one part of the world, solar time is always going to be subjective. Abolishing time zones only exacerbates this problem.
(copied from one of my 9-month old comments)
I advocate for it. So far I'm always dismissed as a joke.
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I will never understand why people want the time we only use for 3 months to be the time we use for the whole year. I would rather people just be able to admit that December is dark (for the northern hemisphere) and we can do shit at a different time.
3 months? April, May, June, July, September and October sure doesn’t sound like 3 months.
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So… change your working hours?
Oh shit this is a good idea. let me just tell my boss to change the hours of the business real quick so I can go hiking after work. Thanks!
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Mid-day should be the middle of the day.
Mid-night should be the middle of the night.You'd need new clocks, those times drift every day, so 12:00 midday would need to change automatically.
There are a lot of regions that are put into the wrong time zone, because that's easier for business. They're not even close to 12:00 being the middle of the day especially during DST.
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I like DST. I like having sunlight later into the evening during the summer.
Me too. I think a lot of ppl do as it literally gives (most) people more daylight to actually do stuff since most people work until like 3-6pm. Another side effect during ST is it crowds things that require daylight on the weekends. The days (in the northern hemisphere) are already shorter, add ST on top of it and now all the things that require daylight that people want to do after work have to wait until the weekend because they just don't have enough time. Then the weekend comes and everyone is there because they all had to wait. Once DST comes there's always noticeably smaller crowds cause now at least some people are able to go during the week.
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No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
I do. I can't stand it because where I live it means I will no longer see the sun. Not to even mention how much it sucks ass from a mental standpoint to get out of work and have it be dark. I could not care less if I see a tiny bit of sunlight on my way to work lol. I've had multiple jobs where once ST hits, I'm going to work and coming home in darkness. I literally dont see the sun until the weekend. Imo give me whichever option that maximizes sunlight during most people's free time.
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No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
You dont gain an hour's sleep.
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Summary
Most European countries moved clocks forward one hour on Sunday, marking the start of daylight saving time (DST), a practice increasingly criticized.
Originally introduced during World War I to conserve energy, DST returned during the 1970s oil crisis and now shifts Central European Time to Central European Summer Time.
Despite a 2018 EU consultation where 84% of nearly 4 million respondents supported abolishing DST, implementation stalled due to member state disagreement.
Poland, currently holding the EU presidency, plans informal consultations to revisit the issue amid broader geopolitical priorities.
I live in a non-DST area and it is very nice
-
To people thinking of enforcing UTC around the globe:
obligatory: https://qntm.org/abolish
Before I read this article, I also thought it would be a great idea to get rid of timezones entirely and just use UTC for everything. To quote from the link,
Abolishing time zones brings many benefits, I hope. It also:
- causes the question “What time is it there?” to be useless/unanswerable
- necessitates significant changes to the way in which normal people talk about time
- convolutes timetables, where present
- means “days” (of the week) are no longer the same as “days”
- complicates both secular and religious law
- is a staggering inconvenience for a minimum of five billion people
- makes it near-impossible to reason about time in other parts of the world
- does not mean everybody gets up at the same time, goes to work at the same time, or goes to bed at the same time
- is not simpler.
As long as humans live in more than one part of the world, solar time is always going to be subjective. Abolishing time zones only exacerbates this problem.
(copied from one of my 9-month old comments)
I mean the best refute of it I've ever heard is that the date changes in the middle of the day, and that sounds miserable
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No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
You'll trade one day of one extra hour of sleep for increased misery all winter long?
