I feel so relieved!
-
It's laudable of you to bring attention to these other atrocities. Without creating a "race to the bottom" regarding what was worse, I still want to point out that the horror of the Holocaust was not only in the number of killed.
I'm aware of a couple of the atrocities you mentioned, but as far as I'm aware, they don't carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust. When I compare Gaza today to the holocaust, that's what I'm comparing, rather than the number of killed. It's about the way Isreal has decided to wipe out the population of Gaza, and systematically does so completely unhindered.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]To be clear, aside from the part I quoted, I agreed with everything else in your post and thought it was an interesting take, but again I have to take issue with this:
as far as I’m aware, they don’t carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust.
I'm not going to analyze every single atrocity since 1945, but the Cambodian genocide was certainly state-sponsored, efficient, and horrific:
"20,000 people passed through the Security Prison 21, one of the 196 prisons the Khmer Rouge operated,[4][28] and only seven adults survived.[29]"
"The executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, the executions were often carried out using poison or improvised weapons such as sharpened bamboo sticks, hammers, machetes and axes.[6] ... In some cases the children and infants of adult victims were killed by having their heads bashed against the trunks of Chankiri trees, and then were thrown into the pits alongside their parents. The rationale was "to stop them growing up and taking revenge for their parents' deaths."
"People were imprisoned and tortured merely on suspicion of opposing the regime or because other prisoners gave their names under torture. Whole families (including women and children) ended up in prisons and were tortured because the Khmer Rouge feared that if they did not do this, their intended victims' relatives would seek revenge. Pol Pot said, "if you want to kill the grass, you also have to kill the roots".[169]"
"There are many accounts of torture in both the Security Prison 21 records and the documents of the trial; as told by the survivor Bou Meng in his book (written by Huy Vannak), tortures were so atrocious and heinous that the prisoners tried in every way to commit suicide, even using spoons, and their hands were constantly tied behind their back to prevent them from committing suicide "
"all medical experiments were systematically conducted without proper anesthetics.[173] A medic who worked inside S-21 said that a 17-year-old girl had her throat slit and her abdomen pierced before being beaten and put into water for an entire night. This procedure was repeated many times and carried out without anesthetics.[174] In a hospital of Kampong Cham province, child medics cut out the intestines of a living non-consenting person and joined their ends to study the healing process. The patient died after three days due to the "operation".[173]"
"Twenty-six-year-old John D. Dewhirst, a British tourist, was one of the youngest foreigners to die in the prison.[17] He was sailing with his New Zealand companion, Kerry Hamill, and their Canadian friend Stuart Glass when their boat drifted into Cambodian territory and was intercepted by Khmer patrol boats on August 13, 1978. Glass was killed during the arrest, while Dewhirst and Hamill were captured, blindfolded, and taken to shore. Both were executed after having been tortured for several months at Tuol Sleng. Witnesses reported that a foreigner was burned alive; initially, it was suggested that this might have been John Dewhirst, but a survivor would later identify Kerry Hamill as the victim of this particular act of brutality."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
-
Do I need to remind everyone
Judging by the number of downvotes your getting: yes.
I guess this kind of stuff will be news to them also: https://www.vice.com/en/article/irans-courts-are-still-blaming-rape-victims-for-their-attacks/
-
I imagine Xi would if he thought he could take over Russia. It should be obvious China does not respect other nations' boundaries or sovreignty. If Russia shows it's that much weaker than China after the Ukraine BS, I would not put it past Xi.
Even if they could, they wouldn't get the resources as cheaply as theyre getting them now. Also China has recall elections, if Xi went mad and unilaterally decided to go to war with a country so important to Chinas economy, he'd be booted so fast.
-
I dont see the potential for global conflict.
Israel and Iran have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It's a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we're all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
(That being said, is Netanyahu a deplorable asshat? Absolutely yes – but for different reasons)
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
At this point, I would be fine with Iran having the bomb. I really don't see any evidence that they would behave more recklessly with it than Israel does.
-
Germans when they realise WW2 was caused by an man from Austria
Germans when they realise WW1 was caused by the assassination of the archduke of Austria and the subsequent declaration of war from Austria-Hungary on Serbia.
You could say Austria is responsible, but Hitler was in Germany, so WW2 is kinda our problem…
Clearly, this is all Austria's fault. To punish Austria, Germany needs to invade and annex it....
-
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
At this point, I would be fine with Iran having the bomb. I really don't see any evidence that they would behave more recklessly with it than Israel does.
cue Oprah
YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, EVERYONE GETS THE BOMB!
Them not behaving more recklessly than Israel is unfortunately not a high bar; which given their past actions I'm not sure they'd pass. I'd like to err on the side of caution here.
-
Not every jew is a zionist. Don't conflate the two. Israel does not have a right to exist, and jews do.
You want to force Jews into the diaspora again? Brilliant move, that worked so well for them the first time around. /s
-
This post did not contain any content.
Last time, germany at least had the guts to spearhead the reich. This time they're just a bootlicker, following their imperialist friends.
-
Fuck Iran. Their government is way worse than Israel's. Do I need to remind everyone that they're feeding Russia with the drones that they use to attack civilians in Ukraine?
Here's hoping that Iran's next revolution won't end up in a total disaster like the previous one did.
As much as you hate Russia's actions in Ukraine, Israel is literally committing a genocide, how can you say that's not worse than giving drones to Russia?
-
I think Germany stopped invading Poland and killing Jews in gas chambers. So I'd say Germany changed at least a little bit.
Germany happily joined the bombing of Libya and Yugoslavia, and the invasion of Iraq. Just because now it's brown people dying, it doesn't make it better.
-
What is meant by "complete failure of Europe"?
Probably the endless degradation of worker rights, welfare state, salaries and infrastructure since 2008, coupled with the rise of the far right?
-
To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of "original sin". What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
The problem is that "nothing of the sort" has translated into "opposing Jews in any way". It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to "atone for their sins", and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we've seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It's very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they've done a laudable job at condemning.
What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it's difficult, and I don't have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself
Nazi Germany also murdered more than 10 million Russians, both civilians and soldiers, and had a literal genocidal plan against slavic peoples (Generalplan Ost), and yet they don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost as if the whole "holocaust shame" thing was a myth, and it was used to manufacture consent towards Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
-
Yes, hi, you may not know of us, understandably - we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others, ever since... The Incidents.
we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others
Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya or Iraq
-
You want to force Jews into the diaspora again? Brilliant move, that worked so well for them the first time around. /s
You want to force Jews into the diaspora again?
So, the only alternative to diaspora is an apartheid ethnostate in occupied land?
-
I dont see the potential for global conflict.
Israel and Iran have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It's a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we're all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
(That being said, is Netanyahu a deplorable asshat? Absolutely yes – but for different reasons)
"have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It’s a regional conflict, and regional it will remain."
Lol, this sounds like a quote from someone in 1914 being catastrophicly wrong.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
But apparently we do need religious crazies who already have nukes, are in the middle of a massive genocide, are attacking and occupying multiple other countries, and have ambitions of conquering the whole middle east, to act as World Police?
You're literally endorsing war crimes.
Netanyahu a deplorable asshat
By "deplorable asshat", you mean the fascist leader of a genocidal ethnostate currently launching multiple wars of aggression.
-
This post did not contain any content.
Not directly, but the government supported getting there.
-
cue Oprah
YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, EVERYONE GETS THE BOMB!
Them not behaving more recklessly than Israel is unfortunately not a high bar; which given their past actions I'm not sure they'd pass. I'd like to err on the side of caution here.
Iran has a right to self defense. Them getting the bomb is the side of caution here. Otherwise they will keep being attacked by Israel and it's allies
-
Well if they didn't genocide all those millions of innocent Jews 80 years ago, western countries wouldn't accept the invasion and genocide in Palestine over the last decades
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Palestine population has been increasing over the last decades. ⅔ of European Jews died in the Holocaust. Comparing very different tragedies here.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/
-
As much as you hate Russia's actions in Ukraine, Israel is literally committing a genocide, how can you say that's not worse than giving drones to Russia?
Not "literally". Ireland is trying to expand the definition in the ICJ to make it so though.
Ireland will not be asserting if genocide is being committed, but asserting its interpretation of the Genocide Convention.
-
Not "literally". Ireland is trying to expand the definition in the ICJ to make it so though.
Ireland will not be asserting if genocide is being committed, but asserting its interpretation of the Genocide Convention.
I don't abide by ICJ rulings, I abide by credible reporting and evidence. Compare the civilian deaths ratio in the Ukraine invasion (however bad they may be) to the one in Palestine
