I feel so relieved!
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I dont see the potential for global conflict.
Israel and Iran have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It's a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we're all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
(That being said, is Netanyahu a deplorable asshat? Absolutely yes – but for different reasons)
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
At this point, I would be fine with Iran having the bomb. I really don't see any evidence that they would behave more recklessly with it than Israel does.
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Germans when they realise WW2 was caused by an man from Austria
Germans when they realise WW1 was caused by the assassination of the archduke of Austria and the subsequent declaration of war from Austria-Hungary on Serbia.
You could say Austria is responsible, but Hitler was in Germany, so WW2 is kinda our problem…
Clearly, this is all Austria's fault. To punish Austria, Germany needs to invade and annex it....
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Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
At this point, I would be fine with Iran having the bomb. I really don't see any evidence that they would behave more recklessly with it than Israel does.
cue Oprah
YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, EVERYONE GETS THE BOMB!
Them not behaving more recklessly than Israel is unfortunately not a high bar; which given their past actions I'm not sure they'd pass. I'd like to err on the side of caution here.
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Not every jew is a zionist. Don't conflate the two. Israel does not have a right to exist, and jews do.
You want to force Jews into the diaspora again? Brilliant move, that worked so well for them the first time around. /s
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Last time, germany at least had the guts to spearhead the reich. This time they're just a bootlicker, following their imperialist friends.
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Fuck Iran. Their government is way worse than Israel's. Do I need to remind everyone that they're feeding Russia with the drones that they use to attack civilians in Ukraine?
Here's hoping that Iran's next revolution won't end up in a total disaster like the previous one did.
As much as you hate Russia's actions in Ukraine, Israel is literally committing a genocide, how can you say that's not worse than giving drones to Russia?
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I think Germany stopped invading Poland and killing Jews in gas chambers. So I'd say Germany changed at least a little bit.
Germany happily joined the bombing of Libya and Yugoslavia, and the invasion of Iraq. Just because now it's brown people dying, it doesn't make it better.
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What is meant by "complete failure of Europe"?
Probably the endless degradation of worker rights, welfare state, salaries and infrastructure since 2008, coupled with the rise of the far right?
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To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of "original sin". What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
The problem is that "nothing of the sort" has translated into "opposing Jews in any way". It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to "atone for their sins", and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we've seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It's very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they've done a laudable job at condemning.
What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it's difficult, and I don't have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself
Nazi Germany also murdered more than 10 million Russians, both civilians and soldiers, and had a literal genocidal plan against slavic peoples (Generalplan Ost), and yet they don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost as if the whole "holocaust shame" thing was a myth, and it was used to manufacture consent towards Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
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Yes, hi, you may not know of us, understandably - we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others, ever since... The Incidents.
we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others
Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya or Iraq
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You want to force Jews into the diaspora again? Brilliant move, that worked so well for them the first time around. /s
You want to force Jews into the diaspora again?
So, the only alternative to diaspora is an apartheid ethnostate in occupied land?
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I dont see the potential for global conflict.
Israel and Iran have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It's a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we're all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
(That being said, is Netanyahu a deplorable asshat? Absolutely yes – but for different reasons)
"have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It’s a regional conflict, and regional it will remain."
Lol, this sounds like a quote from someone in 1914 being catastrophicly wrong.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
But apparently we do need religious crazies who already have nukes, are in the middle of a massive genocide, are attacking and occupying multiple other countries, and have ambitions of conquering the whole middle east, to act as World Police?
You're literally endorsing war crimes.
Netanyahu a deplorable asshat
By "deplorable asshat", you mean the fascist leader of a genocidal ethnostate currently launching multiple wars of aggression.
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Not directly, but the government supported getting there.
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cue Oprah
YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, EVERYONE GETS THE BOMB!
Them not behaving more recklessly than Israel is unfortunately not a high bar; which given their past actions I'm not sure they'd pass. I'd like to err on the side of caution here.
Iran has a right to self defense. Them getting the bomb is the side of caution here. Otherwise they will keep being attacked by Israel and it's allies
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Well if they didn't genocide all those millions of innocent Jews 80 years ago, western countries wouldn't accept the invasion and genocide in Palestine over the last decades
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Palestine population has been increasing over the last decades. ⅔ of European Jews died in the Holocaust. Comparing very different tragedies here.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/
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As much as you hate Russia's actions in Ukraine, Israel is literally committing a genocide, how can you say that's not worse than giving drones to Russia?
Not "literally". Ireland is trying to expand the definition in the ICJ to make it so though.
Ireland will not be asserting if genocide is being committed, but asserting its interpretation of the Genocide Convention.
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Not "literally". Ireland is trying to expand the definition in the ICJ to make it so though.
Ireland will not be asserting if genocide is being committed, but asserting its interpretation of the Genocide Convention.
I don't abide by ICJ rulings, I abide by credible reporting and evidence. Compare the civilian deaths ratio in the Ukraine invasion (however bad they may be) to the one in Palestine
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Their government is way worse than Israel’s.
So why bomb Iranian civilians?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Iranian citizens are not being targeted whereas Iran (and previously Hezbollah) bombed at least one Israeli town where there are no military.
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Not every jew is a zionist. Don't conflate the two. Israel does not have a right to exist, and jews do.
Where should the Israel Jews go now though?
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What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself
Nazi Germany also murdered more than 10 million Russians, both civilians and soldiers, and had a literal genocidal plan against slavic peoples (Generalplan Ost), and yet they don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost as if the whole "holocaust shame" thing was a myth, and it was used to manufacture consent towards Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]As mentioned in one of my other comments: Yes, the Holocaust targeted other groups than Jews (Slavs, Romani, Gays, etc.). However, in learning about the Holocaust, there is usually a strong focus on Jews. In short, most people learn a lot about how Jews were targeted, and a lot of memorials and media focus on Jewish prosecution by the nazis.
At the same time, Russia has been built up as an adversary since the beginning of the Cold War, and committed plenty of their own atrocities before, during, and after WWII. The same cannot be said about Romani, Gays, Jews, or other groups targeted during the Holocaust.
With all this in mind, it's not very hard to understand why "Holocaust guilt" is centered on Jews more than other groups, and why Russians are largely exempt from the feeling altogether. I'm not saying that's fair or right, I'm saying it's very understandable.
On the other hand: I really don't see any motive from Germanys side to support genocide on Palestinians. So my argument is essentially trying to understand why Germany would support Isreal despite <waves at Israel in general>. The only good explanation I've found is centred on "Holocaust guilt", and the way it's been portrayed and conveyed the past eighty years.
