Why don't the whole planet just use UTC+00:00 / Universal Time without time zones?
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kind of my point. Trains need accurately measured time in order to run properly.
The proposed change to UTC globally does not change the accuracy of time measurements. I think it’s a terrible idea, but I fail to see how your point here relates.
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The proposed change to UTC globally does not change the accuracy of time measurements. I think it’s a terrible idea, but I fail to see how your point here relates.
The cultural relationship with time is more important than its absolute measurement.
This was the statement at the top of this discussion. It values the local concept of what time should be over an objective measurement of what time is.
The proposed change wouldn't cause much of a problem. But the idea under the statement I quoted would.
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The cultural relationship with time is more important than its absolute measurement.
This was the statement at the top of this discussion. It values the local concept of what time should be over an objective measurement of what time is.
The proposed change wouldn't cause much of a problem. But the idea under the statement I quoted would.
Fair, thanks for the context
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Only because we're already familiar with the current way of doing things, though. If we had all been on UTC for our entire lives, it would be a simple matter of getting to a new place, asking when local noon is, and going about our business.
"Hey, when is local noon here?"
"'bout 0330."
"Cool, thanks. Want to get together for drinks tomorrow night? Say, around 1045?"
They're all just numbers. They have no inherent meaning, only what we imbue then with.
It would get a little bit tricky with the date switching over in the middle of the day, of course. In my mind, that's the biggest reason.
Why exactly is asking for "what time is the local noon" more convenient than asking "what timezone is this"?
How is "local noon is at 2:45" somehow easier to adjust to than "adjust your clock by X hours"? You don't need to relearn every thing like what time breakfast is served when local noon is 08:50.
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So… like it is already? Ever tried to call someone in a different time zone? It’s fine-ish 1 or maybe 2 hours off, but much beyond that still requires a minimum of research.
Your ring up a person, they go "why the fuck are you calling me at 09:45?", sounding really upset. You don't understand why. He's in a place where that means it's the middle of the night and as a local he understands it.
Oooor
He could just say "do you know what time it is here? It's two am!" and you'd understand.
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Only because we're already familiar with the current way of doing things, though. If we had all been on UTC for our entire lives, it would be a simple matter of getting to a new place, asking when local noon is, and going about our business.
"Hey, when is local noon here?"
"'bout 0330."
"Cool, thanks. Want to get together for drinks tomorrow night? Say, around 1045?"
They're all just numbers. They have no inherent meaning, only what we imbue then with.
It would get a little bit tricky with the date switching over in the middle of the day, of course. In my mind, that's the biggest reason.
Answer quickly, if noon is 0330 what time is dinner, what is a 9-5 job and what time do you expect to have breakfast. There are lots of adjustments you will need to make, whereas with the current system you know that as a general rule you can expect dinner at around 8, most people to work 9-5, and places to serve breakfast at 8 or 9, so you switch your clock when you arrive and you're done.
If you're a local who never moved timezones z then yeah it makes no difference what the numbers are, you would get used to waking up at 9PM and switching date midway through the day, there might even be 2 different words for tomorrow, one for the next day one for the next date, but the moment you traveled to a different location all of your years of being used to general time where things happen go out the window, it's much more of a hassle than adjusting your clock and assuming times will be mostly similar.
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It spans 4,5 hours one way, and 0,5 hours the other way*
So, it's a big deal.
Fine, let's do it your way.
Close to five hours of time difference versus twelve hours.
One was rather disruptive to say the least. The other would be either catastrophical, or be regarded as a joke.
Of course we won't hear any dissent about the Chinese time zone! We wouldn't hear any dissent about China!
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Why isn't this a popular thing?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Almost a century ago, the fascist dictator of Spain wanted to appease Hitler and decided to move the timezone from the UK one to the German one. With daylight savings the situation in summer was a bit ridiculous: dark until 9 am and sun until 10 pm, it was very confusing as a tourist to have all the stores to open so late in morning and go out to eat dinner so late
I can't imagine what kind of mess would be going to Japan as a tourist on UTC+0
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Why isn't this a popular thing?
I work with someone who does 9-5 in the next state, a messily -4 hours away.
They get to work when I have lunch, when I'm waiting on something from them in the afternoon they're just dealing with morning shit. When their system crashes at 4:50 in the afternoon as usual I'm making dinner.
So does this colleague suddenly have to work 9-5 in +0 time. Or do they keep working real 9-5?
Worst of all, he sees a bit of daylight on the sunrise commute home. Yet I as a +10 would never see the sun.
How do you propose any of this work?
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Why isn't this a popular thing?
That would be shifting from timezone to "workzone" or "noonzone". At this moment you need to setup a meeting with people, then you ask which is their timezone. With global UTC timezone, then you need to ask, which are your work hours? (workzone).
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That's different, your day remains Wednesday their day remains Tuesday, they're talking about going to lunch on Tuesday and coming back on Wednesday, do you call that your Tuesday lunch? Tuesday Dinner? Wednesday breakfast? Wednesday lunch?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]This also already happens, albeit for fewer people. I used to have a job that started at 7pm. My lunchtime was literally from 23:30 to 00:30 the following day.
I admit I did not like that job very much, but it wasn't anything to do with each work day spanning two dates.
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Why isn't this a popular thing?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]We should also all work 9am-5pm of course.
Edit: it would be wild because in the USA the shops would open in the middle of the night etc.
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Why isn't this a popular thing?
Long discussion here. I feel I'd like to add two things. First: we already do. If you coordinate international video calls or conference live streams, you'll say it starts 14:00 UTC. That is something we can do and regularly do. Some companies will use the timezone of their headquarters, though.
Furthermore: Once you're already in the process of changing how time works, don't do a half-assed job. Go all the way and make it metric. Do away with all the 12/24 and 60s. And make things divisible by 1000.
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This also already happens, albeit for fewer people. I used to have a job that started at 7pm. My lunchtime was literally from 23:30 to 00:30 the following day.
I admit I did not like that job very much, but it wasn't anything to do with each work day spanning two dates.
That's not lunch though, it's dinner. It's not about a work day going across the date, it's about the changing of the date happening midway through the day. You wouldn't go to the bank do some stuff during your "lunch" break only to discover you missed the deadline because it went over midnight, or every place you visit has different moments when bills expire, etc, etc. You working a night shift is a completely different scenario, by the time the date crosses over most places that are date sensitive are already closed for the day.
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We should also all work 9am-5pm of course.
Edit: it would be wild because in the USA the shops would open in the middle of the night etc.
That's 9:00 - 17:00.
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We should also all work 9am-5pm of course.
Edit: it would be wild because in the USA the shops would open in the middle of the night etc.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Who are you, a service employee? In our country, office workers' shifts are 7-15 and factory workers' 6-14, plus 14-22 and 22-6 in two/three-shift operations. The workday opening hours of small businesses are approximately:
- Convenience shops: 6-7 to 18-21 (overwhelmingly run by the Vietnamese minority)
- Pubs: 10-16 to 20-24
- Bakeries: 6 to 15-16
- Clothes stores, jewelry etc.: 8-10 to 16-18 (closest to a "9-5")
- Hairdressers, massage parlors: by appointment, usually 10-20
People who ever work after 16:00 are a minority.
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So… like it is already? Ever tried to call someone in a different time zone? It’s fine-ish 1 or maybe 2 hours off, but much beyond that still requires a minimum of research.
Okay, I get it, you don't know time zones already so you have to research every time but most people don't think of the other people please.
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I work with someone who does 9-5 in the next state, a messily -4 hours away.
They get to work when I have lunch, when I'm waiting on something from them in the afternoon they're just dealing with morning shit. When their system crashes at 4:50 in the afternoon as usual I'm making dinner.
So does this colleague suddenly have to work 9-5 in +0 time. Or do they keep working real 9-5?
Worst of all, he sees a bit of daylight on the sunrise commute home. Yet I as a +10 would never see the sun.
How do you propose any of this work?
Your 9-5 is his 11-4
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Why exactly is asking for "what time is the local noon" more convenient than asking "what timezone is this"?
How is "local noon is at 2:45" somehow easier to adjust to than "adjust your clock by X hours"? You don't need to relearn every thing like what time breakfast is served when local noon is 08:50.
It's not more convenient. I'm just saying we'd have been used to that and just as weirded out by the idea of time zones if that was all we'd ever known.
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Answer quickly, if noon is 0330 what time is dinner, what is a 9-5 job and what time do you expect to have breakfast. There are lots of adjustments you will need to make, whereas with the current system you know that as a general rule you can expect dinner at around 8, most people to work 9-5, and places to serve breakfast at 8 or 9, so you switch your clock when you arrive and you're done.
If you're a local who never moved timezones z then yeah it makes no difference what the numbers are, you would get used to waking up at 9PM and switching date midway through the day, there might even be 2 different words for tomorrow, one for the next day one for the next date, but the moment you traveled to a different location all of your years of being used to general time where things happen go out the window, it's much more of a hassle than adjusting your clock and assuming times will be mostly similar.
Yep. I can tell you that dinner would be around 0930, but you're right that the other calculations are tougher.
I'm not saying this would be better. Either system has trade-offs. I'm saying that each of them would be equally weird from the other side.
