German poll: Majority for return to nuclear energy
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Building, running, maintaining and decommissioning fission plants is so unfathomably expensive on the taxpayer its not even believable. They are also super prone to war issues because they are so centralized. With a few attacks you can take out most of the energy supply of a country relying heavily on nuclear power. Good luck trying to take out all the island capable solar installations and every wind turbine.
If someone attacks Germany’s nuclear power plants the world as we know it won’t exist because nuclear weapons will launch ravaging most of the world.
Also you don’t need to attack every single solar panel, just the power distribution centers
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Summary
A new Innofact poll shows 55% of Germans support returning to nuclear power, a divisive issue influencing coalition talks between the CDU/CSU and SPD.
While 36% oppose the shift, support is strongest among men and in southern and eastern Germany.
About 22% favor restarting recently closed reactors; 32% support building new ones.
Despite nuclear support, 57% still back investment in renewables. The CDU/CSU is exploring feasibility, but the SPD and Greens remain firmly against reversing the nuclear phase-out, citing stability and past policy shifts.
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If someone attacks Germany’s nuclear power plants the world as we know it won’t exist because nuclear weapons will launch ravaging most of the world.
Also you don’t need to attack every single solar panel, just the power distribution centers
As you can see in Ukraine, there is still absolutely potential for non nuclear weapon based war in Europe.
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I don't mind having a power plant near me.
It's a minuscule risk compared to what we deal with every day with cars.
You're more likely to get cancer from eating red meat.
Now living under power lines? That's dangerous.
It's not only the risk factor, people routinely oppose wind turbines just because they dislike how they look. and huge cooling towers are not exactly subtle.
but the 'risk factor' is a total non-issue in regards to making this decision. nuclear power could be 100% safe and it would still simply be far too expensive to be worth it.
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Hate to break it to you, bud, but energy is already priced according to how expensive it is to provide.
It's not about "this energy source vs. that energy source." It's about increasing the supply of available energy.
Read a book on energy and you'll quickly realize that as we produce more energy, we consume more. Right now, our energy needs are not being met even with fossil fuels + nuclear + renewables.
Hate to break it to you, but with a limited amount of money you can only increase your generation so much. Choosing a power source that's less efficient from a monetary perspective means you can displace less fossil fuel.
Read a book on mathematics if you don't believe me.
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How does the cost compare to the starting and operating a coal mine?
What about oil wells and refineries?
We've got other alternatives. I was not proposing to build coal mines.
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It's not an either-or.
We need as many sources of energy as possible to increase the available supply and reduce the cost.
I would usually accept. But looking at the cost of production and how the pricing is set (highest price sets the bar), nuclear is the worst. Its so expensive that no supplier even wants to take the grants to build it. A waste of money… building storage capacities and evolving smart grids would be better investments.
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It's not an either-or.
We need as many sources of energy as possible to increase the available supply and reduce the cost.
Said like someone who has never encountered the concept of opportunity costs.
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Chernobyl shouldn't have happened due to safety measures, yet it did. Fukushima shouldn't have happened, yet it did. The common denominator is human error, but guess who'll be running any other nuclear power plants? Not beavers.
Fukushima's reactors were extremely old, even at the time. We're not even talking about the same technology. Shit has come a very long way.
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The countries without nuclear will deindustrialize and the countries with nuclear will outcompete them.
Where is the evidence for that claim?
Germany is the obvious evidence for that claim. Their once great industry is doing really bad due to high energy prices. Which is why even they are second guessing the Energiewende.
Despite insane levels of investment in renewables, they are still stuck on gas en lignite and have very high energy prices.
Merkel's bet that Russian gas could always be depended on didn't work out.
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How is a nuclear meltdown not the fault of nuclear power? Of course you can prevent it by being super careful and stuff, but it is inherent to nuclear power that it is super dangerous. What is the worst that can happen with a wind turbine? It falls, that's it.
Because the shit they were using in the Fukushima plants was so old that it might as well be completely different technology. Same with Chernobyl.
People are referencing shit that does not even apply to modern nuclear power.
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Statisticians have found that for many types of surveys, a sample size of around 1,000 people is the sweet spot—regardless of if the population size is 100,000 or 100M.
Wouldn't it depend a lot on how many of those people consume the exact same information sources on topics like this where the average person has no real clue at all to make their own judgement?
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This is just straight up fear mongering. Say what you will about the economics, but the idea that there's no safe amount of radiation is ridiculous (we don't know, but presumably it's okay in some amounts since you're getting radiation doses every day even not living near anything nuclear).
The idea that NPPs are some unsafe technology just waiting to explode is dramatic and untrue.
The idea that NPPs are some unsafe technology just waiting to explode is dramatic and untrue.
You're the first person to mention exploding here. GP was saying that they make for a good target in war time to turn into a dirty bomb, either intentionally or not.
...but the idea that there's no safe amount of radiation is ridiculous (we don't know, but presumably it's okay in some amounts since you're getting radiation doses every day even not living near anything nuclear).
"We don't know"??? Sorry, but we do know.
There's no 100% safe level because any level carries some risk. Higher levels means higher risk.
Background radiation has some risk, but it's a risk we accept. X-rays, plane flights, etc all have increased risk (hence people exposed to lots of x-rays wearing leads) but we accept them. Material from decommissioned nuclear plants is way higher on this scale.
Nuclear power has downsides as well as positives. Depending on your perspective (e.g. do you work cleaning up the aftermath, or just benefitting from the energy) one will outweigh the other.
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That was mostly when they were rushing to shut down nuclear plants. Getting them operational again will be insane cost opposed to them keep on running like before.
You can't get them running again. They're gone.
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It's not perfect, but to forego nuclear energy while still burning fossil fuels is retarded.
As opposed to thinking we could replace fossil fuels with nuclear power faster than we can replace them with renewables which is obviously a totally sane belief given how large construction projects are going... /s
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Germany is the obvious evidence for that claim. Their once great industry is doing really bad due to high energy prices. Which is why even they are second guessing the Energiewende.
Despite insane levels of investment in renewables, they are still stuck on gas en lignite and have very high energy prices.
Merkel's bet that Russian gas could always be depended on didn't work out.
The sabotage of solar and wind energy by Altmaier during the CDU government has had a bigger impact than the removal of the few percent of power we got from nuclear. Not to mention that nuclear fuel has the exact same problems as fossil fuels in that major sources of nuclear fuel are in Russia.
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Fukushima's reactors were extremely old, even at the time. We're not even talking about the same technology. Shit has come a very long way.
That must be why you people are suggesting to turn the extremely old German reactors back on that have had limited maintenance under the assumption that they would be turned off for decades now.
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Fukushima's reactors were extremely old, even at the time. We're not even talking about the same technology. Shit has come a very long way.
Sure, and the next catastrophe will have some good reason too, yet it will happen due to human error and greed.
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How does the cost compare to the starting and operating a coal mine?
What about oil wells and refineries?
It's not a binary nuclear or coal choice.
Take 50 billion Euros, you want to invest in clean energy and have the biggest impact you can. You don't buy one nuclear power plant, that's for sure. You probably build multiple wind farms (around 10bn each) which, while intermittent, will each provide similar total energy over a year.
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It's not perfect, but to forego nuclear energy while still burning fossil fuels is retarded.
Nobody is arguing for fossil fuels here.
