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  3. Good piece, don't disagree with anything.

Good piece, don't disagree with anything.

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  • H This user is from outside of this forum
    H This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Good piece, don't disagree with anything.

    In short, there have been objective reasons in recent years why Europeans have become more critical of China. Not to do the US a favour, but out of self-interest. That point must be underlined, right when Trump 2.0 harms our interests in so many areas and says that Europe must take sides: it is either the US or China. The answer to this should be: no thanks. Above all, Europe must choose Europe.

    We shouldn't allow ourselves to be pressured into taking a side unless we ourselves want to take a side.

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    • H [email protected]

      Good piece, don't disagree with anything.

      In short, there have been objective reasons in recent years why Europeans have become more critical of China. Not to do the US a favour, but out of self-interest. That point must be underlined, right when Trump 2.0 harms our interests in so many areas and says that Europe must take sides: it is either the US or China. The answer to this should be: no thanks. Above all, Europe must choose Europe.

      We shouldn't allow ourselves to be pressured into taking a side unless we ourselves want to take a side.

      C This user is from outside of this forum
      C This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      And you're big enough to be a side yourselves, which other countries like mine can look to for non-insanity.

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        And you're big enough to be a side yourselves, which other countries like mine can look to for non-insanity.

        H This user is from outside of this forum
        H This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        In Dutch there is a saying 'when two dogs fight over a bone, a third one will walk away with it'. Might be an English equivalent for it, but in this case I totally see a large amount of small countries that do not want to pick a side, and Europe benefitting more from trading with those countries than siding with the US or China.

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        • H [email protected]

          In Dutch there is a saying 'when two dogs fight over a bone, a third one will walk away with it'. Might be an English equivalent for it, but in this case I totally see a large amount of small countries that do not want to pick a side, and Europe benefitting more from trading with those countries than siding with the US or China.

          C This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          That's a good saying. Closest I can think of is "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", but that's not really the same.

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            That's a good saying. Closest I can think of is "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", but that's not really the same.

            H This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Never heard that, it's good.

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            • H [email protected]

              In Dutch there is a saying 'when two dogs fight over a bone, a third one will walk away with it'. Might be an English equivalent for it, but in this case I totally see a large amount of small countries that do not want to pick a side, and Europe benefitting more from trading with those countries than siding with the US or China.

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              While i like the idea, i don't think this will play out like this easily.

              First of all the EU is resource dependent whereas the US and China do have access to a lot of resources domestically.
              Then many EU countries have a huge baggage of colonial and post colonial crimes and structures that drove countries in Africa, Asia and South America away or keep them at arms length.
              Finally many EU countries also have a huge Racism/Fascism problem and delusions of supremacy are on the rise rather than falling. So governments advocating for and making deals that are consistent with the real power dynamics and making up for some of the crimes they committed is likely not going to happen easily. Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands... All these countries are on a very bad track of Racist delusions that will get in the way of diplomacy and economic beneficial dealings. They already are shooting themselves in the internal and the external foot.

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                While i like the idea, i don't think this will play out like this easily.

                First of all the EU is resource dependent whereas the US and China do have access to a lot of resources domestically.
                Then many EU countries have a huge baggage of colonial and post colonial crimes and structures that drove countries in Africa, Asia and South America away or keep them at arms length.
                Finally many EU countries also have a huge Racism/Fascism problem and delusions of supremacy are on the rise rather than falling. So governments advocating for and making deals that are consistent with the real power dynamics and making up for some of the crimes they committed is likely not going to happen easily. Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands... All these countries are on a very bad track of Racist delusions that will get in the way of diplomacy and economic beneficial dealings. They already are shooting themselves in the internal and the external foot.

                A This user is from outside of this forum
                A This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Do a lot of countries have a problem with the colonial past? Speaking for Asia, it's not really a thing that I've noticed there.

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                  Do a lot of countries have a problem with the colonial past? Speaking for Asia, it's not really a thing that I've noticed there.

                  S This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  All of the "Middle East" is in Asia and people are neither fond of the former colonizing nor of the onslaughts and meddling since.
                  Algeria and France are escalating diplomatic tensions with recent withdrawals and expulsions of diplomats.
                  Multiple Subsaharan countries kicked out the French over the past two years.
                  Germany keeps antagonizing Namibia instead of properly owning up to the genocide it committed there
                  India is asserting itself more and more on the world stage. While it has good trade relationships and the current government loves Racism against Muslims, India also helps Russia circumvent EU sanctions.
                  For South America and South Asia i dont know enough details. The EU countries mostly siding with Israel in its war crimes and crimes against humanity is definvtely not helping ties with South American countries except for maybe Argentina

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                  • S [email protected]

                    While i like the idea, i don't think this will play out like this easily.

                    First of all the EU is resource dependent whereas the US and China do have access to a lot of resources domestically.
                    Then many EU countries have a huge baggage of colonial and post colonial crimes and structures that drove countries in Africa, Asia and South America away or keep them at arms length.
                    Finally many EU countries also have a huge Racism/Fascism problem and delusions of supremacy are on the rise rather than falling. So governments advocating for and making deals that are consistent with the real power dynamics and making up for some of the crimes they committed is likely not going to happen easily. Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands... All these countries are on a very bad track of Racist delusions that will get in the way of diplomacy and economic beneficial dealings. They already are shooting themselves in the internal and the external foot.

                    H This user is from outside of this forum
                    H This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    I didn't say Europe as a third block would be equal in power or military strength. I believe they might benefit more if they don't pick a side compared to if they do pick a side. But time will tell.

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                      All of the "Middle East" is in Asia and people are neither fond of the former colonizing nor of the onslaughts and meddling since.
                      Algeria and France are escalating diplomatic tensions with recent withdrawals and expulsions of diplomats.
                      Multiple Subsaharan countries kicked out the French over the past two years.
                      Germany keeps antagonizing Namibia instead of properly owning up to the genocide it committed there
                      India is asserting itself more and more on the world stage. While it has good trade relationships and the current government loves Racism against Muslims, India also helps Russia circumvent EU sanctions.
                      For South America and South Asia i dont know enough details. The EU countries mostly siding with Israel in its war crimes and crimes against humanity is definvtely not helping ties with South American countries except for maybe Argentina

                      H This user is from outside of this forum
                      H This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      As far as I know most South American countries are quite ok with their former colonizers, politically speaking. More than the people who descended from slaves and the surviving natives, but they aren't a large group. Most people just want to get by with their day to day lives. Unlike Africa where there is a lot more hatred towards western countries / white people, most of all in the former french colonies, also because France decolonised much less then other European colonisers. In south-east Asia there is as far as I know not really hate, but more distrust and a feeling of not being treated fairly right now (instead of how they were treated in the past). If anyone feels I'm wrong please correct me, I don't follow local news in these places and just talk to people from time to time about this stuff.

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