Balatro wins formal appeal to reclassify poker game as PEGI 12
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I think it's more that hysterical moral guardians and corporate boobs only see the traditionally casino-like superficial imagery of cards, dice, spades, clubs, slots, etc. and instantly knee-jerk themselves into declaring it "immoral" without actually bothering to take the twelve seconds required to experience the gameplay. At which point they would immediately realize that they are wrong.
This is Kyle's Mom's version of only reading the headline, or not bothering to look beyond the dust jacket and only screeching about imaginary content that exists only inside their own assumptions and based purely on the picture on the cover.
It can be both. The moral screeching is a convenient cover story for the corrupt industry.
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Like I said in this and the branch below it, many games, balatro included, include game and visual design that evoke psychological experiments and concepts that are basically the foundation of slot machines and the like.
And these are the same concepts people deride when we call them loot boxes (but not gacha for some reason).
The difference is one is manipulating a continuous flow of money out of your wallet and you pay once for Balatro to get the same rush without getting psychofinancially milked for the CHANCE at a hit of dopamine before you pay again for the privilege.
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Good.
I very much think games like Balatro DO need to be assessed and probably have an increased rating because they are unabashedly designed to be as addictive as possible. Same as ARPGs that have been built around skinner boxes basically since Diablo.
But this was never that. It was just "oh, cards and poker theming? GAMBLING!!!"
Eating is addictive man. Kids are addicted to fucking candy and breathing and shit. What kind of insane kids do you want to mold?
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While the win is good, the fact that it’s still a PEGI 12 game while FIFA is a PEGI 3 shows what an absolute joke the whole process is.
Australia had to deal with similar levels of bullshit for way too long before our ratings board finally capitulated to common sense and introduced an R18 rating (for games like The Last of Us, not even XXX content!).
We have an endemic gambling problem too, so I don’t foresee much common sense coming out of that mob anytime soon - either.
FC25 is rated 12+ in germany, same as Balatro.
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FC25 is rated 12+ in germany, same as Balatro.
It's that idiotic classification system that's the problem. A game is considered to be gambling game if it involves cards.
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Speaking of only reading the headline, I love me some corporate boobs.
No HR don't allow enjoyment of corporate boobs. They kick you out at the office for that kind of thing.
Unless you are the manager your obviously, oh ironically you work in the games industry.
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Awesome, I'm glad the dev held his position! He's right that it's incredibly moronic to have games like FIFA with actual gambling mechanics rated lower.
Balatro will get you hooked on lovely indie games, not gambling
They tried to claim it taught you how to gamble. Seriously that was their argument.
So clearly they didn't play the game because if you actually turned up to a casino and tried to play like that they kick you out.
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Awesome to see them win this. If other games can have poker or other cards games where the characters are gambling and not have that influence their shit, the roguelike that uses playing cards in the same way Go-Fish does definitely shouldn't be smacked over this.
Fuck EA and all the loot box game makers that don't get hit with this crap
If other games can have poker or other cards games where the characters are gambling and not have that influence their shit
I doubt it though because the game doesn't have any gambling in it at all. It just uses the imagery of poker, that's it. I have no more of an idea how to play poker now than they did before spending 900 Brazilian hours on the game.
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He wrote some hyped up programming books and he was involved in the creation of extreme programming (a bust), cucumber (an almost completely useless waste of time), and agile (an ok idea but in reality it's a huge bust, it's biggest effect is that management tells everyone "we need to be agile" all the time).
Tldr: you're not missing out
Oh he invented agile did he. I already hate him.
Agile just means that you don't have a project plan, but you see that's okay because you planned not to have a project plan, and therefore it's totally fine.
I'm happy to say I've never heard of the others.
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Like I said in this and the branch below it, many games, balatro included, include game and visual design that evoke psychological experiments and concepts that are basically the foundation of slot machines and the like.
And these are the same concepts people deride when we call them loot boxes (but not gacha for some reason).
So you're referring to things like "number go up" and Juice, because literally every game does that.
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I don't understand what you're talking about. Balatro does not contain loot boxes/gacha. In a world where so many modern AAA games are exploiting all kinds of shady dark patterns, Balatro took off by not doing any of that shit. It's just a sincerely fun game, and it sounds like you're literally just complaining that it's too fun and that should somehow be policed.
The guy is clearly an idiot. He made this stupid comment and he can't justify it but rather than admit that it's a stupid comment and he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's trying to back it up in some bizarre way with this mumbo jumbo non-logic.
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I can't speak to factorio since every time that dev has ever opened his mouth it has just been horrific hateful bullshit.
But Civ is more just "addictive" because the gameplay is fun. That is not to downplay that but it is generally closer to "escapism" than not when you get into that "one more turn" cycle and realize it is 3 am.
ARPGs were very much designed around skinner boxes/operant conditioning chambers which are one of the core tenets of how things like slot machines are designed. We can see similar (and it was outright acknowledged by many reviewers/influencers) with games like Vampire Survivors.
At the end of the day, the reality is that the "This is fine if you are 13" system is idiotic and what we actually need is fine grain warnings... which will go down great in an era of "Eww, trigger warnings are woke". But, like, I have a cousin who is well aware that he is incredibly prone to addiction when it comes to gambling and on many occasions he has texted family and friends to ask if it is "safe" for him to play a new game. And... it is kind of concerning how often the answer is "no".
Civ is a bit exploitative in that they deliberately release a half-arsed base product with glaring flaws, charging big $$$ for it; and then release a chain of expansion packs to flesh it out and make it complete.
I was on the beta team for Civ 5; and it was a real eye-opener to see that this is a deliberate strategy. It isn't just that games are hard to get right. They deliberately hold back to squeeze more cash out. I haven't bought any civ game since then.
But yeah, I agree that it isn't the same type of exploitation as gambling.
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I think it's more that hysterical moral guardians and corporate boobs only see the traditionally casino-like superficial imagery of cards, dice, spades, clubs, slots, etc. and instantly knee-jerk themselves into declaring it "immoral" without actually bothering to take the twelve seconds required to experience the gameplay. At which point they would immediately realize that they are wrong.
This is Kyle's Mom's version of only reading the headline, or not bothering to look beyond the dust jacket and only screeching about imaginary content that exists only inside their own assumptions and based purely on the picture on the cover.
Nonono you don't understand, lootboxes make us money! Thats not gambling.
Playing cards though? Oh that's definitely gambling. Go fish? Gambling. Solitaire? Definitely gambling. 52 pick-up? Straight to gambling.
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While the win is good, the fact that it’s still a PEGI 12 game while FIFA is a PEGI 3 shows what an absolute joke the whole process is.
Australia had to deal with similar levels of bullshit for way too long before our ratings board finally capitulated to common sense and introduced an R18 rating (for games like The Last of Us, not even XXX content!).
We have an endemic gambling problem too, so I don’t foresee much common sense coming out of that mob anytime soon - either.
self censoring bodies like pegi are there to protect the industry, so it doesn't get actual censorship from the government. EA is the industry. of course they get special treatment.
also gambling is the blueprint of AAA gaming now, so pegi loves it. they only do this shit to small devs so they can pretend to care while protecting industry giants from the actual scrutiny that they deserve.
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Definitely thought from the thumbnail that it was PEGI 13 -> PEGI 12.
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Oh he invented agile did he. I already hate him.
Agile just means that you don't have a project plan, but you see that's okay because you planned not to have a project plan, and therefore it's totally fine.
I'm happy to say I've never heard of the others.
Extreme programming is basically pair programming. It sucks and doesn't work. Cucumber is also known as "behavioral driven (design/development)" or BDD. It manifests as test documents written in "plain English" that are executed via code. It inevitably becomes unit tests but worse because it's based mainly around regex matches to bits of text within the steps.
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self censoring bodies like pegi are there to protect the industry, so it doesn't get actual censorship from the government. EA is the industry. of course they get special treatment.
also gambling is the blueprint of AAA gaming now, so pegi loves it. they only do this shit to small devs so they can pretend to care while protecting industry giants from the actual scrutiny that they deserve.
Very true, same applies to the ESRB in the US. The ESA literally only formed the organisation to self-censor rather than leave it to the Gov’t following outrage over Mortal Kombat — if I’m remembering correctly?
Here in Australia, the ACB is a government body — but just about as useless, if not even more so! For the longest time, we had to have our games additionally censored because they were viewed as for children and therefore couldn’t depict excessive violence, any sexual themes or drug use. Manhunt, Grand Theft Auto 3 & Vice City were notable examples.
What am I getting at, even I don’t know. I guess to say that both implementations can be shit..?
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No HR don't allow enjoyment of corporate boobs. They kick you out at the office for that kind of thing.
Unless you are the manager your obviously, oh ironically you work in the games industry.
And pencil skirts... and tight, buttoned blouses...and heels....and glasses...
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Like I said in this and the branch below it, many games, balatro included, include game and visual design that evoke psychological experiments and concepts that are basically the foundation of slot machines and the like.
And these are the same concepts people deride when we call them loot boxes (but not gacha for some reason).
Hmm. At least in my experience, the people decrying loot boxes also condemn gacha, but we could have had separate experiences.
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Honestly... yeah.
How many millennial/genx gamers have stories about staying up all night playing Diablo 2 or WoW? Hell, it was almost a requirement for any games media person to have an "I almost flunked out of college because of WoW" story.
It was hard to care TOO much with D2 because any additional monetization was mostly illegal gold farmers (and let's ignore the various former devs who have acknowledged they were involved in those...). But starting with WoW? That was a subscription model. That "I need to run this raid 500 times to get the drop I want" equated to increased subscriptions which was profit. Again, there were limits-ish in that very few people ran multiple accounts so it was a fixed cost per year. But it was still there.
Fast forward again and we have the same concepts going into loot boxes and, eventually, gacha games where it is 100% predatory and basically what the majority of successful live service games are built around.
Like anything, it is about understanding what you are and aren't susceptible to. But it is also important to actually think critically and wonder if you REALLY like the gameplay of that game or if you just like the flashing lights and sparkles of a good drop?
Like anything, it is about understanding what you are and aren’t susceptible to.
Hard agree. I get sucked hard into good stories and know I'd lose a lot of time to them, so I refused to let myself start anything over 30,000 words for a period of time.
It should be a cost/benefit evaluation of "how much enjoyment will I gain from this game and is the time spent enjoying worth it compared to all the other things I could be doing?" Sadly some things hijack this decision-making, and with some things you really only get to try once before you get hooked. "Try everything once" shouldn't include heroin. I think that's part of why knowing if a game is addictive is helpful for some people, so they know if they can try it or have to stay away forever. I have heard enough stories of MMO addiction that I've decided that I should never play one.
