Remember, kids! Unregulated capitalism is not your friend!
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This lead me down a rabbit hole an introduced me to "Mother's Ruin" of the cheap gin sold at the time:
It gets even more wild the more you read of that article. One guy pawning his wife for a quart of gin...then the government crackdown when things started getting even worse!
14 gallons per year? Rookie numbers! I drank more than that on a single 7-day binge!
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14 gallons per year? Rookie numbers! I drank more than that on a single 7-day binge!
That 14 gallons number raised all kinds of questions for me:
- What potency was this gin that could be consumed in this quantity but without killing so many more of its consumers?
- How can they possibly produce gin this cheap? Slave labor from the Caribbean?
- What would the logistics look like to move this much gin to a population consuming this much? This is the days before motor vehicles so everything would have had to be moved by human or horse/donkey/mule/cow pulled cart. Steam engines wouldn't arrive for another 100 years. So it was likely animal cart the number of barrels of gin must have been a river of full carts moving into the city and a river of empty ones headed out all the time.
- Public sanitation didn't really exist. Public sewer systems wouldn't arrive for another 100 years or so so the entire city must have smelled like urine all the time.
- With the sheer number of gin containers needed for this volume, did they have a "deposit" on bottles like we have sometimes today? Did they have an underground economy of people collecting empties to trade back in?
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I find that hard to believe. The ground would be more comfortable.
except, the ground is outside in the freezing london winter, during an age with draconian 'move along' laws that mean you'd be hassled by cops all night. ground would be more comfortable, that's why the coffin costs 4 pennies.
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Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get my cancerous scrotum looked at coughs up chimney dust
People don't want to work anymore, they just want to lay in wooden boxes all day.
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Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get my cancerous scrotum looked at coughs up chimney dust
nice try comrade!
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Is that true? Did they really sleep on the ropes like that?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Not like the picture. The rope was more to stop you falling off the bench where you were sitting up asleep.
For an extra penny [than a one penny sit up] you could pay to sleep literally hanging over a rope. This was possibly marginally more comfortable, as if you fell asleep the rope would prevent you from slipping onto the floor or head-butting the bench in front of you.
https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Two-Penny-Hangover/
Edit - none of the sites mentioning it have any sources. The closest to a source I've found quickly is this passage from Dickens Pitwick Papers, which to me doesn't sound like the arrangement as described in the photo but perhaps something more akin to hammocks. Especially given the part that says "down falls the lodgers"
And pray Sam, what is the twopenny rope?’ inquired Mr. Pickwick. ‘The Twopenny rope, sir,’ replied Mr. Weller, ‘is just a cheap lodgin’ house where the beds is twopence a night!’ ‘What do they call a bed a rope for?’ said Mr. Pickwick. ‘Well the advantage o’ the plan’s obvious. At six o’clock every mornin’, they lets go the ropes at one end, and down falls all the lodgers. Consequence is that, being thoroughly waked, they get up very quickly, and walk away.’”
This site https://www.geriwalton.com/victorian-four-penny-coffins-penny-beds-homelessness/ says that the coffins were actually 2 pennies, or 4 with a meal. So why would someone sit over a rope for the same price? Again a hammock type arrangement here seems more logical to me.
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That 14 gallons number raised all kinds of questions for me:
- What potency was this gin that could be consumed in this quantity but without killing so many more of its consumers?
- How can they possibly produce gin this cheap? Slave labor from the Caribbean?
- What would the logistics look like to move this much gin to a population consuming this much? This is the days before motor vehicles so everything would have had to be moved by human or horse/donkey/mule/cow pulled cart. Steam engines wouldn't arrive for another 100 years. So it was likely animal cart the number of barrels of gin must have been a river of full carts moving into the city and a river of empty ones headed out all the time.
- Public sanitation didn't really exist. Public sewer systems wouldn't arrive for another 100 years or so so the entire city must have smelled like urine all the time.
- With the sheer number of gin containers needed for this volume, did they have a "deposit" on bottles like we have sometimes today? Did they have an underground economy of people collecting empties to trade back in?
Slave labor from the Caribbean?
You're thinking of rum on that one.
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Slave labor from the Caribbean?
You're thinking of rum on that one.
I am, you're right. Where did England's gin come from?
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Not like the picture. The rope was more to stop you falling off the bench where you were sitting up asleep.
For an extra penny [than a one penny sit up] you could pay to sleep literally hanging over a rope. This was possibly marginally more comfortable, as if you fell asleep the rope would prevent you from slipping onto the floor or head-butting the bench in front of you.
https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Two-Penny-Hangover/
Edit - none of the sites mentioning it have any sources. The closest to a source I've found quickly is this passage from Dickens Pitwick Papers, which to me doesn't sound like the arrangement as described in the photo but perhaps something more akin to hammocks. Especially given the part that says "down falls the lodgers"
And pray Sam, what is the twopenny rope?’ inquired Mr. Pickwick. ‘The Twopenny rope, sir,’ replied Mr. Weller, ‘is just a cheap lodgin’ house where the beds is twopence a night!’ ‘What do they call a bed a rope for?’ said Mr. Pickwick. ‘Well the advantage o’ the plan’s obvious. At six o’clock every mornin’, they lets go the ropes at one end, and down falls all the lodgers. Consequence is that, being thoroughly waked, they get up very quickly, and walk away.’”
This site https://www.geriwalton.com/victorian-four-penny-coffins-penny-beds-homelessness/ says that the coffins were actually 2 pennies, or 4 with a meal. So why would someone sit over a rope for the same price? Again a hammock type arrangement here seems more logical to me.
This was basically like Victorian pre-mobility (trains/metro) for this class, so people could commute only as far they could reasonably walk in a day. And offerings & prices prob varied.
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People don't want to work anymore, they just want to lay in wooden boxes all day.
I wanted to lay in a wooden box all day before it was cool
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That 14 gallons number raised all kinds of questions for me:
- What potency was this gin that could be consumed in this quantity but without killing so many more of its consumers?
- How can they possibly produce gin this cheap? Slave labor from the Caribbean?
- What would the logistics look like to move this much gin to a population consuming this much? This is the days before motor vehicles so everything would have had to be moved by human or horse/donkey/mule/cow pulled cart. Steam engines wouldn't arrive for another 100 years. So it was likely animal cart the number of barrels of gin must have been a river of full carts moving into the city and a river of empty ones headed out all the time.
- Public sanitation didn't really exist. Public sewer systems wouldn't arrive for another 100 years or so so the entire city must have smelled like urine all the time.
- With the sheer number of gin containers needed for this volume, did they have a "deposit" on bottles like we have sometimes today? Did they have an underground economy of people collecting empties to trade back in?
Well your going to wish you weren't so curious with this one. Source of this information: several museum visits around 30 years ago after a pint or three, so the info might be warped.
Gin is a double-distilled 40% or higher spirit flavored with juniper + other flavors.
The source of the alcohol was any carbohydrate or starch source. Whatever was cheapest. It was mostly wheat and barley at the time but just about anything else cheap could be used like rye, turnips, etc. For the cheapest rotgut the ingredients was stuff considered unfit for animal feed (rodent feces, insect damage, molds, water damage, etc).
Since their ingredients were highly questionable, their input cost was minimal. Heating was from coal. They also started making larger batches which further reduced down the cost.
Logistics - Canals at this time period was the most important logistic. One donkey pulling a barge could move as much as 50 wagons. Tons of goods were transported cheaply and efficiently on the barges. The gin was shipped in casks/barrels like beer/ale. Bottles were very expensive and reserved for the elite.
Public sanitation consisted of a gutter on the side of the road. The entire city smelled like the open sewer it was.
The gin was not served in bottles. It was served like beer or ale into cups/mugs/communal tankards etc .. mostly earthenware, leather or wood.
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Well your going to wish you weren't so curious with this one. Source of this information: several museum visits around 30 years ago after a pint or three, so the info might be warped.
Gin is a double-distilled 40% or higher spirit flavored with juniper + other flavors.
The source of the alcohol was any carbohydrate or starch source. Whatever was cheapest. It was mostly wheat and barley at the time but just about anything else cheap could be used like rye, turnips, etc. For the cheapest rotgut the ingredients was stuff considered unfit for animal feed (rodent feces, insect damage, molds, water damage, etc).
Since their ingredients were highly questionable, their input cost was minimal. Heating was from coal. They also started making larger batches which further reduced down the cost.
Logistics - Canals at this time period was the most important logistic. One donkey pulling a barge could move as much as 50 wagons. Tons of goods were transported cheaply and efficiently on the barges. The gin was shipped in casks/barrels like beer/ale. Bottles were very expensive and reserved for the elite.
Public sanitation consisted of a gutter on the side of the road. The entire city smelled like the open sewer it was.
The gin was not served in bottles. It was served like beer or ale into cups/mugs/communal tankards etc .. mostly earthenware, leather or wood.
Great info on the process of manufacturing. I know that some spirits have to come from some specific carb sources, but it makes sense that if its just goal of mass production of ethanol, then I suppose they weren't picky about their carb source.
Canals makes a lot of sense for higher volume cargo, thank you.
The gin was not served in bottles. It was served like beer or ale into cups/mugs/communal tankards etc … mostly earthenware, leather or wood.
Would the gin be consumed exclusively in bars/taverns where it could be dispensed into mugs? Even then, the gin had to be in a larger container to be delivered to the tavern, a barrel I presume? Were coopers in crazy high demand always making new barrels or were the empty barrels turned around and refilled?
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Great info on the process of manufacturing. I know that some spirits have to come from some specific carb sources, but it makes sense that if its just goal of mass production of ethanol, then I suppose they weren't picky about their carb source.
Canals makes a lot of sense for higher volume cargo, thank you.
The gin was not served in bottles. It was served like beer or ale into cups/mugs/communal tankards etc … mostly earthenware, leather or wood.
Would the gin be consumed exclusively in bars/taverns where it could be dispensed into mugs? Even then, the gin had to be in a larger container to be delivered to the tavern, a barrel I presume? Were coopers in crazy high demand always making new barrels or were the empty barrels turned around and refilled?
Barrels were reused until they could no longer be repaired or salvaged. Cooper's had steady guaranteed work for their skills.
Consumption was mostly at the public houses/taverns for the lower/middle classes.
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Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get my cancerous scrotum looked at coughs up chimney dust
This is an example of capitalism providing an economical solution where no one else did.
Sure it sucks, but at least they can get a minimum level of safety while on the 10 year wait list for government housing.
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This is an example of capitalism providing an economical solution where no one else did.
Sure it sucks, but at least they can get a minimum level of safety while on the 10 year wait list for government housing.
What the fuck? This is an example of the extreme commodification of poverty and the state's failure to protect its citizens.
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What the fuck? This is an example of the extreme commodification of poverty and the state's failure to protect its citizens.
Its a states failure to protect its citizens but its not a commodificaton of poverty. Poverty has always had value and always been a commodity. They aren't creating the poverty or the circumstances that would perpetuate it. They're just fulfilling a need so its really no harm.
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Its a states failure to protect its citizens but its not a commodificaton of poverty. Poverty has always had value and always been a commodity. They aren't creating the poverty or the circumstances that would perpetuate it. They're just fulfilling a need so its really no harm.
Unless they were in cahoots with the government to ensure housing prices remain high. I'm not saying that was the case back then but the incentive was always there.
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Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get my cancerous scrotum looked at coughs up chimney dust
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The rope trick sounds like a good idea to put on a plane
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Its a states failure to protect its citizens but its not a commodificaton of poverty. Poverty has always had value and always been a commodity. They aren't creating the poverty or the circumstances that would perpetuate it. They're just fulfilling a need so its really no harm.
What?
A modern circumstance would be refusal to raise min wage to a reasonable wage. That’s absolutely a circumstance abetting poverty. If you don’t believe in that, then unfettered capitalism is commodifying poverty and increasing disparity.
You either maximize rules and services to prevent poverty, or you allow exploitation to increase it.
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What the fuck? This is an example of the extreme commodification of poverty and the state's failure to protect its citizens.
As compared to today, where we humanely let homeless people sleep under bridges instead
