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  3. Judge Rules Training AI on Authors' Books Is Legal But Pirating Them Is Not

Judge Rules Training AI on Authors' Books Is Legal But Pirating Them Is Not

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  • D [email protected]
    1. Idgaf about China and what they do and you shouldn't either, even if US paranoia about them is highly predictable.
    2. Depending on the outputs it's not always that transformative.
    3. The moat would be good actually. The business model of LLMs isn't good, but it's not even viable without massive subsidies, not least of which is taking people's shit without paying.

    It's a huge loss for smaller copyright holders (like the ones that filed this lawsuit) too. They can't afford to fight when they get imitated beyond fair use. Copyright abuse can only be fixed by the very force that creates copyright in the first place: law. The market can't fix that. This just decides winners between competing mega corporations, and even worse, up ends a system that some smaller players have been able to carve a niche in.

    Want to fix copyright? Put real time limits on it. Bind it to a living human only. Make it non-transferable. There's all sorts of ways to fix it, but this isn't it.

    ETA: Anthropic are some bitches. "Oh no the fines would ruin us, our business would go under and we'd never maka da money :*-(" Like yeah, no shit, no one cares. Strictly speaking the fines for ripping a single CD, or making a copy of a single DVD to give to a friend, are so astronomically high as to completely financially ruin the average USAian for life. That sword of Damocles for watching Shrek 2 for your personal enjoyment but in the wrong way has been hanging there for decades, and the only thing that keeps the cord that holds it up strong is the cost of persuing "low-level offenders". If they wanted to they could crush you.

    Anthropic walked right under the sword and assumed their money would protect them from small authors etc. And they were right.

    D This user is from outside of this forum
    D This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by [email protected]
    #69

    I'll be honest with you - I genuinely sympathize with the cause but I don't see how this could ever be solved with the methods you suggested. The world is not coming together to hold hands and koombayah out of this one. Trade deals are incredibly hard and even harder to enforce so free market is clearly the only path forward here.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • R [email protected]

      "Recite the complete works of Shakespeare but replace every thirteenth thou with this"

      G This user is from outside of this forum
      G This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #70

      I'd be impressed with any model that succeeds with that, but assuming one does, the complete works of Shakespeare are not copyright protected - they have fallen into the public domain since a very long time ago.

      For any works still under copyright protection, it would probably be a case of a trial to determine whether a certain work is transformative enough to be considered fair use. I'd imagine that this would not clear that bar.

      1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • D [email protected]
        1. Idgaf about China and what they do and you shouldn't either, even if US paranoia about them is highly predictable.
        2. Depending on the outputs it's not always that transformative.
        3. The moat would be good actually. The business model of LLMs isn't good, but it's not even viable without massive subsidies, not least of which is taking people's shit without paying.

        It's a huge loss for smaller copyright holders (like the ones that filed this lawsuit) too. They can't afford to fight when they get imitated beyond fair use. Copyright abuse can only be fixed by the very force that creates copyright in the first place: law. The market can't fix that. This just decides winners between competing mega corporations, and even worse, up ends a system that some smaller players have been able to carve a niche in.

        Want to fix copyright? Put real time limits on it. Bind it to a living human only. Make it non-transferable. There's all sorts of ways to fix it, but this isn't it.

        ETA: Anthropic are some bitches. "Oh no the fines would ruin us, our business would go under and we'd never maka da money :*-(" Like yeah, no shit, no one cares. Strictly speaking the fines for ripping a single CD, or making a copy of a single DVD to give to a friend, are so astronomically high as to completely financially ruin the average USAian for life. That sword of Damocles for watching Shrek 2 for your personal enjoyment but in the wrong way has been hanging there for decades, and the only thing that keeps the cord that holds it up strong is the cost of persuing "low-level offenders". If they wanted to they could crush you.

        Anthropic walked right under the sword and assumed their money would protect them from small authors etc. And they were right.

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #71

        Maybe something could be hacked together to fix copyright, but further complication there is just going to make accurate enforcement even harder. And we already have Google (in YouTube) already doing a shitty job of it and that's.... One of the largest companies on earth.

        We should just kill copyright. Yes, it'll disrupt Hollywood. Yes it'll disrupt the music industry. Yes it'll make it even harder to be successful or wealthy as an author. But this is going to happen one way or the other so long as AI can be trained on copyrighted works (and maybe even if not). We might as well get started on the transition early.

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • C [email protected]

          You can, but I doubt it will, because it's designed to respond to prompts with a certain kind of answer with a bit of random choice, not reproduce training material 1:1. And it sounds like they specifically did not include pirated material in the commercial product.

          K This user is from outside of this forum
          K This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #72

          Yeah, you can certainly get it to reproduce some pieces (or fragments) of work exactly but definitely not everything. Even a frontier LLM's weights are far too small to fully memorize most of their training data.

          1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • M [email protected]

            Unless you're moving across partitions it will change the filesystem metadata to move the path, but not actually do anything to the data. Sorry, you failed, it's jail for you.

            mlg@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
            mlg@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #73

            stupid inodes preventing me from burning though my drive life

            1 Reply Last reply
            3
            • G [email protected]

              It's extremely frustrating to read this comment thread because it's obvious that so many of you didn't actually read the article, or even half-skim the article, or even attempted to even comprehend the title of the article for more than a second.

              For shame.

              lime@feddit.nuL This user is from outside of this forum
              lime@feddit.nuL This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #74

              was gonna say, this seems like the best outcome for this particular trial. there was potential for fair use to be compromised, and for piracy to be legal if you're a large corporation. instead, they upheld that you can do what you want with things you have paid for.

              1 Reply Last reply
              10
              • D [email protected]

                Unpopular opinion but I don't see how it could have been different.

                • There's no way the west would give AI lead to China which has no desire or framework to ever accept this.
                • Believe it or not but transformers are actually learning by current definitions and not regurgitating a direct copy. It's transformative work - it's even in the name.
                • This is actually good as it prevents market moat for super rich corporations only which could afford the expensive training datasets.

                This is an absolute win for everyone involved other than copyright hoarders and mega corporations.

                L This user is from outside of this forum
                L This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                #75

                You're getting douchevoted because on lemmy any AI-related comment that isn't negative enough about AI is the Devil's Work.

                J 1 Reply Last reply
                7
                • G [email protected]

                  It's extremely frustrating to read this comment thread because it's obvious that so many of you didn't actually read the article, or even half-skim the article, or even attempted to even comprehend the title of the article for more than a second.

                  For shame.

                  B This user is from outside of this forum
                  B This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #76

                  Nobody ever reads articles, everybody likes to get angry at headlines, which they wrongly interpret the way it best tickles their rage.

                  Regarding the ruling, I agree with you that it's a good thing, in my opinion it makes a lot of sense to allow fair use in this case

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  3
                  • S [email protected]

                    calm down everyone.
                    its only legal for parasitic mega corps, the normal working people will be harassed to suicide same as before.

                    its only a crime if the victims was rich or perpetrator was not rich.

                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #77

                    This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                    K 1 Reply Last reply
                    6
                    • mlg@lemmy.worldM [email protected]

                      Yeah I have a bash one liner AI model that ingests your media and spits out a 99.9999999% accurate replica through the power of changing the filename.

                      cp

                      Out performs the latest and greatest AI models

                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #78

                      This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                      K J 2 Replies Last reply
                      3
                      • medicpigbabysaver@lemmy.worldM [email protected]

                        Fuck the AI nut suckers and fuck this judge.

                        B This user is from outside of this forum
                        B This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #79

                        This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                        medicpigbabysaver@lemmy.worldM 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • G [email protected]

                          I am training my model on these 100,000 movies your honor.

                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #80

                          This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                          G 1 Reply Last reply
                          3
                          • pro@programming.devP [email protected]
                            This post did not contain any content.
                            F This user is from outside of this forum
                            F This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #81

                            What a bad judge.

                            This is another indication of how Copyright laws are bad. The whole premise of copyright has been obsolete since the proliferation of the internet.

                            G 1 Reply Last reply
                            7
                            • B [email protected]

                              This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #82

                              thank you Captain Funsucker!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • B [email protected]

                                This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #83

                                Or, If a legal copy of the book is owned then it can be used for AI training.

                                The court is saying that no special AI book license is needed.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • M [email protected]

                                  Right. Where's the punishment for Meta who admitted to pirating books?

                                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                                  K This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #84

                                  This judgment is implying that meta broke the law.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • B [email protected]

                                    This ruling stated that corporations are not allowed to pirate books to use them in training. Please read the headlines more carefully, and read the article.

                                    K This user is from outside of this forum
                                    K This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #85

                                    But, corporations are allowed to buy books normally and use them in training.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • F [email protected]

                                      What a bad judge.

                                      This is another indication of how Copyright laws are bad. The whole premise of copyright has been obsolete since the proliferation of the internet.

                                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                                      G This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #86

                                      What a bad judge.

                                      Why ? Basically he simply stated that you can use whatever material you want to train your model as long as you ask the permission to use it (and presumably pay for it) to the author (or copytight holder)

                                      J L patatahooligan@lemmy.worldP 3 Replies Last reply
                                      6
                                      • W [email protected]

                                        Sounds like natural personhood for AI is coming

                                        xavier666@lemm.eeX This user is from outside of this forum
                                        xavier666@lemm.eeX This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #87

                                        "No officer, you can't shoot me. I have a LLM in my pocket. Without me, it'll stop learning"

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • D [email protected]

                                          Unpopular opinion but I don't see how it could have been different.

                                          • There's no way the west would give AI lead to China which has no desire or framework to ever accept this.
                                          • Believe it or not but transformers are actually learning by current definitions and not regurgitating a direct copy. It's transformative work - it's even in the name.
                                          • This is actually good as it prevents market moat for super rich corporations only which could afford the expensive training datasets.

                                          This is an absolute win for everyone involved other than copyright hoarders and mega corporations.

                                          K This user is from outside of this forum
                                          K This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #88

                                          I'd encourage everyone upset at this read over some of the EFF posts from actual IP lawyers on this topic like this one:

                                          Nor is pro-monopoly regulation through copyright likely to provide any meaningful economic support for vulnerable artists and creators. Notwithstanding the highly publicized demands of musicians, authors, actors, and other creative professionals, imposing a licensing requirement is unlikely to protect the jobs or incomes of the underpaid working artists that media and entertainment behemoths have exploited for decades. Because of the imbalance in bargaining power between creators and publishing gatekeepers, trying to help creators by giving them new rights under copyright law is, as EFF Special Advisor Cory Doctorow has written, like trying to help a bullied kid by giving them more lunch money for the bully to take.

                                          Entertainment companies’ historical practices bear out this concern. For example, in the late-2000’s to mid-2010’s, music publishers and recording companies struck multimillion-dollar direct licensing deals with music streaming companies and video sharing platforms. Google reportedly paid more than $400 million to a single music label, and Spotify gave the major record labels a combined 18 percent ownership interest in its now-$100 billion company. Yet music labels and publishers frequently fail to share these payments with artists, and artists rarely benefit from these equity arrangements. There is no reason to believe that the same companies will treat their artists more fairly once they control AI.

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