We live wasted lives
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Cool. Yet you are ignoring the very tiny fact that collective farms started famines. They didn't "just underperform".
Well, I guess the great depression never happened, correct?
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
Imagine this! Before you was adventure, exploration, and danger. Then there was slavery, then there was our period (where there are still millions of actual slaves btw).
Then after you, if anyone survives, and we don't all get put into an I have no mouth and I must scream scenario by our overlords, the youth after us will never know work. They will be far more functional than us, and will simply not understand working to survive. They will look down on us, senile outcasts, who get to watch "heaven" from afar.
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If someone gives you an example of a communist country and then you go "no no that's not communism" when in fact yes, it was communism, because otherwise as you yourself said "no country in the last 2000 years was communist" then that's the true scotsman.
I said YOUR country wasn't communist in the last 2000 years. Many were. Like Catalonia. Like I told you.
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You gave me a singular anecdote from a state that didn't exist for even three years.
That's one more anecdote from a communist country than you've given.
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Tbh, I don't even think the first two points apply.
Ownership by the state, especially a state that the people have no control over, isn't really ownership of the people. The main point of ownership (also under communism) is control. If I own something, I control it. I can decide what happens with it. Under capitalism the worker doesn't own the factory, because the worker has no control over it. The worker has no say over what or how or when the factory produces, so the worker doesn't own the factory.
Under the USSR system, the worker also has no say over anything regarding the work. The only difference is that the owner isn't another person but the state.
Something like the early stock corporations would be closer to communism. There each worker owns stock in the company and thus can vote on what the company does.
Same goes with social classes. There certainly was a class difference between party member (or at least high ranking party member) and non-party-members.
Private property also still existed, just on a lower scale. People still owned their cars, their stereo systems and all the other items of daily usage.
(I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to reinforce the point)
Aye that's fair. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" and all that.
Just to clarify though, owning your own car and stereo falls under personal property, not private property. See my comment here for a brief distinction of the two: https://feddit.uk/comment/18187961
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WaSTeD LiFe 🤪
What do you think they meant with the alternating caps and the emoji?
Personally, I think that it's quite clearly an attempt to ridicule the meme and those who agree with it, built on the preceding facts about modern white collar work being relatively comfortable, which is (as per my previous comment) irrelevant to the question at hand.
If you disagree on this interpretation of their intent, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good day to you.Fair enough, have a good one mate. Appreciate the discussion.
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Governance structures aren't without fail either, as exemplified with quite a few big corporations going down over time.
Governance structures are also present in political systems, and also there they can fail.
A government and a corporation are really not all that dissimilar when it comes to managing work, projects and so on.
Yeah that was also my reason to say that it doesn't always work like that.
People also defend companies or system that lack transparancy, things like not publishing annual reports etc
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Aye that's fair. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" and all that.
Just to clarify though, owning your own car and stereo falls under personal property, not private property. See my comment here for a brief distinction of the two: https://feddit.uk/comment/18187961
Just to clarify though, owning your own car and stereo falls under personal property, not private property. See my comment here for a brief distinction of the two: https://feddit.uk/comment/18187961
Yeah, ok, I see that distinction, it does make sense.
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hell yeah brother, 30 hours a week, 4 weeks paid vacation, guaranteed and paid for further education courses, protection from being fired while pregnant/ at home with newborn, minimum wage, privacy laws and employee protection laws, unionization, multiple paid federal holidays.
I fuckin love Europe. -
Well, I guess the great depression never happened, correct?
The great depression has never starved millions of Ukrainians to death.
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I think most reasonable people would agree that there are many objectively good things about the modern world, but progress isn't a strict good/bad binary. Often, progress results in both good and bad circumstances.
For instance, I think most reasonable people would agree that modern medicine is a very good thing. Vaccines and antibiotics have saved countless lives. Also, more advanced agricultural technology has allowed us to grow more food and feed more people. However, progress has also resulted in significant ecological damage, depletion of natural, nonrenewable resources and a significant loss of biodiversity. I think most reasonable people would agree that these are very bad things.
I don't think the point is to ignore the very real, important positives about the modern world, but to point out that there are still things that need to improve, and unintended negative effects of progress that need to be dealt with.
I appreciate that for you the modern world is overall good, but that's not necessarily everyone's experience. Some people do feel purposeless, depressed and worn down, despite being relatively wealthy and comfortable, especially compared to humans of past eras.
I meant good in comparison to other times. And I don't mean me personally but people in general.
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Absolutely. Really, if you're reading this, you are probably pretty high up on the scale.
Yeah I’ve said this a few times, but honestly anybody who can interact with Lemmy is in the upper tiers of the scale compared with the vast majority of humans who have ever lived.
Obviously that does not mean that individuals cannot have terrible luck and circumstances.
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I sure do love being a wage slave in the good ol US of A.
🥲
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I think we are wasting our lives to a certain degree. As kids, we expected more from life than sitting in front of a computer to feed the family. And sitting at a computer is seen as one of the "good" jobs.
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Imagine this! Before you was adventure, exploration, and danger. Then there was slavery, then there was our period (where there are still millions of actual slaves btw).
Then after you, if anyone survives, and we don't all get put into an I have no mouth and I must scream scenario by our overlords, the youth after us will never know work. They will be far more functional than us, and will simply not understand working to survive. They will look down on us, senile outcasts, who get to watch "heaven" from afar.
Personally, I sometimes ponder if this is a part of The Great Filter. We have evolved to survive under constant threats in harsh environments, so when those dangers and threats are removed we don't know how to handle it. We start to perceive minor things as bigger problems. I wonder if this is part of what we need to learn to deal with before we can live peacefully with our neighbours and nature.
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Once everything has been optimized and runs smoothly, there are no surprises anymore, nothing interesting, you just do a routine that you've specialized in and have gotten bored at 10 years ago. Our quality of life is unparalleled. Our quality of work less so. It's safe and all, but so so boring
I've heard this described as a velvet rut.
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Yeah but most humans didn't have to live around cars. I'd give up running water to get rid of cars. Cars are worse than running water is good. Sign me up for carrying barrels from the river if I don't need to worry about being run over.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]It's not just the convenience of running water, it's all of the infrastructure around making sure that water is clean and safe, which involves government regulation and audits, massive engineering projects, a lot of maintenance effort and a considerable amount of tax dollars.
Just as an example, leptospirosis is a common bacterial contaminant in untreated water:
Signs and symptoms can range from none to mild (headaches, muscle pains, and fevers) to severe (bleeding in the lungs or meningitis). Weil's disease (/ˈvaɪlz/ VILES), the acute, severe form of leptospirosis, causes the infected individual to become jaundiced (skin and eyes become yellow), develop kidney failure, and bleed. Bleeding from the lungs associated with leptospirosis is known as severe pulmonary haemorrhage syndrome.
If you go hiking in places like Hawaii (where the government gives a shit about public health) you'll see warning signs about lepto around pools and streams because people have this delusional fantasy about tropical paradises with clean flowing streams. If you go hiking in other places the lepto will still be there but the warning sign won't. Untreated, uncontrolled water is a hazard.
Everyone can't be an expert on water sanitation. Employing some experts to provide that service for thousands or millions of people is a fantastic solution. It's probably impossible to overstate how much benefit water infrastructure provides for society.
So I disagree with you. "Running water" (centrally managed water sanitation and delivery) is one of the best things human society has ever done. The benefit to public health is incalculable.
The only reason you might discount how much benefit you gain from this system is that you've grown up with it as normal. You've never had to worry about groundwater contamination, about boiling every cup of water before you drink it, about filtration or desalinization or testing for lead. Which is why I describe having access to this as a privilege - because we take it for granted.
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Personally, I sometimes ponder if this is a part of The Great Filter. We have evolved to survive under constant threats in harsh environments, so when those dangers and threats are removed we don't know how to handle it. We start to perceive minor things as bigger problems. I wonder if this is part of what we need to learn to deal with before we can live peacefully with our neighbours and nature.
Interesting take on the situation. I like it.
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It's not just the convenience of running water, it's all of the infrastructure around making sure that water is clean and safe, which involves government regulation and audits, massive engineering projects, a lot of maintenance effort and a considerable amount of tax dollars.
Just as an example, leptospirosis is a common bacterial contaminant in untreated water:
Signs and symptoms can range from none to mild (headaches, muscle pains, and fevers) to severe (bleeding in the lungs or meningitis). Weil's disease (/ˈvaɪlz/ VILES), the acute, severe form of leptospirosis, causes the infected individual to become jaundiced (skin and eyes become yellow), develop kidney failure, and bleed. Bleeding from the lungs associated with leptospirosis is known as severe pulmonary haemorrhage syndrome.
If you go hiking in places like Hawaii (where the government gives a shit about public health) you'll see warning signs about lepto around pools and streams because people have this delusional fantasy about tropical paradises with clean flowing streams. If you go hiking in other places the lepto will still be there but the warning sign won't. Untreated, uncontrolled water is a hazard.
Everyone can't be an expert on water sanitation. Employing some experts to provide that service for thousands or millions of people is a fantastic solution. It's probably impossible to overstate how much benefit water infrastructure provides for society.
So I disagree with you. "Running water" (centrally managed water sanitation and delivery) is one of the best things human society has ever done. The benefit to public health is incalculable.
The only reason you might discount how much benefit you gain from this system is that you've grown up with it as normal. You've never had to worry about groundwater contamination, about boiling every cup of water before you drink it, about filtration or desalinization or testing for lead. Which is why I describe having access to this as a privilege - because we take it for granted.
But I have had to worry about cars cooking the atmosphere with their pollution and ending the entire human species. And I think that's worse than leptospirosis.
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Yeah I’ve said this a few times, but honestly anybody who can interact with Lemmy is in the upper tiers of the scale compared with the vast majority of humans who have ever lived.
Obviously that does not mean that individuals cannot have terrible luck and circumstances.
one fact I found shocking is that currently only about 30% of humans use toilet paper. And yes I am aware of bidets, but that's not the remaining 70%, is it?
