THE FINALS announced they are updating to a kernel-based anti-cheat, and despite the change, they will continue to support Linux/Proton
-
Embark | Dusty @NAMA
Hey guys! There are no plans to drop support for SteamOS/Proton/ Wine and/or Steam Deck, despite us not officially supporting the platform. We will do our utmost best to maintain your ability to play!
Embark | tvandijk
Just to add to what Dusty just said, we're working pretty closely with CodeWeavers to QA every release we put out there since about Season 5, and I don't see a reason to stop that. It's not exactly a collaboration, but we do catch issues with SteamDeck early because at the very least they do a pass on the game before we release a patch. Do we miss some things once in a while, absolutely. It's not our primary platform after all, but we understand there is a pretty passionate and growing playerbase on SteamDeck. Please keep reporting issues here, to our support, or report them to the Proton devs directly, and we will investigate what we can do to fix things...
-
Embark | Dusty @NAMA
Hey guys! There are no plans to drop support for SteamOS/Proton/ Wine and/or Steam Deck, despite us not officially supporting the platform. We will do our utmost best to maintain your ability to play!
Embark | tvandijk
Just to add to what Dusty just said, we're working pretty closely with CodeWeavers to QA every release we put out there since about Season 5, and I don't see a reason to stop that. It's not exactly a collaboration, but we do catch issues with SteamDeck early because at the very least they do a pass on the game before we release a patch. Do we miss some things once in a while, absolutely. It's not our primary platform after all, but we understand there is a pretty passionate and growing playerbase on SteamDeck. Please keep reporting issues here, to our support, or report them to the Proton devs directly, and we will investigate what we can do to fix things...
Wow. Integrity. Nice to see!
-
Embark | Dusty @NAMA
Hey guys! There are no plans to drop support for SteamOS/Proton/ Wine and/or Steam Deck, despite us not officially supporting the platform. We will do our utmost best to maintain your ability to play!
Embark | tvandijk
Just to add to what Dusty just said, we're working pretty closely with CodeWeavers to QA every release we put out there since about Season 5, and I don't see a reason to stop that. It's not exactly a collaboration, but we do catch issues with SteamDeck early because at the very least they do a pass on the game before we release a patch. Do we miss some things once in a while, absolutely. It's not our primary platform after all, but we understand there is a pretty passionate and growing playerbase on SteamDeck. Please keep reporting issues here, to our support, or report them to the Proton devs directly, and we will investigate what we can do to fix things...
This was their reasoning for kernels based anti-cheat:
Security
With every big update comes a renewed commitment from our Anti-Cheat team:
Cheat makers operate in a low-risk, high-reward world. They profit by selling cheats, oftentimes packing them with malware that harms their own customers, and they face very little consequences for their actions. Meanwhile, players who use their cheats risk losing everything: their accounts, their money, their time, and their chance to participate in events and competitions.
Our strategy for combating this is simple: raise the cost, difficulty, and time required to develop and distribute cheats.
As mentioned in the 7.0 patch notes, a lot of cheats these days use a kernel-driver to read and write memory to gain an unfair advantage. This means that they run in a privileged mode in the Windows operating system, making it unlikely and in some cases impossible to detect via Anti-Cheat in the game client. The technical solution to combat this is kernel-driver Anti-Cheat. We believe that this is, and will be, a requirement for every competitive multiplayer game for the foreseeable future.
We’re also using machine learning to analyze player behavior, and we have been doing so since the launch of THE FINALS. Machine learning provides valuable insights, especially when detecting cheats such as aimbot usage.
In the coming months, we will also begin an incremental rollout of a new kernel-based anti-cheat solution, intended to significantly raise the bar for cheat makers.
Cheat makers exploit everyone: players, developers, and the community itself. We’re committed to protecting fair play and adapting to new threats.
Despite claims from cheat developers that they’re “undetectable,” every cheat leaves breadcrumbs and we’ve been following them. Closely.
-
Wow. Integrity. Nice to see!
Here is the thing. They cite users running kernel level cheats, and the need to detect them. Well, if they allow user mode anti-cheat to function under linux I see two eventualities that will likely force them to change their mind.
1: Cheats find a way to spoof running under wine/linux while in windows and continue to use only the user mode cheat while running their windows kernel cheats.
2: They develop kernel mode cheats for Linux and move cheating to Linux.Either of these could end up either forcing them to either stop linux clients entirely, or somehow segregate them.
One thing I've seen with serious cheating communities... They will go a long way, a long long way just to cheat. Almost as far as spending time to get good at the game. Almost, but not quite.
I hope it doesn't go this way. I don't play games with kernel anti-cheat as a matter of principle. But it would be annoying if it happened to a game I already played.
-
Here is the thing. They cite users running kernel level cheats, and the need to detect them. Well, if they allow user mode anti-cheat to function under linux I see two eventualities that will likely force them to change their mind.
1: Cheats find a way to spoof running under wine/linux while in windows and continue to use only the user mode cheat while running their windows kernel cheats.
2: They develop kernel mode cheats for Linux and move cheating to Linux.Either of these could end up either forcing them to either stop linux clients entirely, or somehow segregate them.
One thing I've seen with serious cheating communities... They will go a long way, a long long way just to cheat. Almost as far as spending time to get good at the game. Almost, but not quite.
I hope it doesn't go this way. I don't play games with kernel anti-cheat as a matter of principle. But it would be annoying if it happened to a game I already played.
Those are valid concerns, but I don't see any reason to believe that a hybrid approach for handling the two ecosystem couldn't be possible. As mentioned by their discord posts, their patches to the game are directly parsed by CodeWeavers, and options for server-sided anticheat or a Valve-style "Trust Factor" are both on the table.
I could also see this being beneficial regardless of the eventualities because of the barrier of entry - novice or less tech savvy users who wish to remain on the Windows platform and desire to cheat could be more deterred (or caught) by the kernel level anticheat. On the other side of the aisle, linux users could be targeted with a Trust Factor or higher level of User-space scrutiny, given a lower likelihood for running an excessive amount of background processes (compared to Windows).
-
Embark | Dusty @NAMA
Hey guys! There are no plans to drop support for SteamOS/Proton/ Wine and/or Steam Deck, despite us not officially supporting the platform. We will do our utmost best to maintain your ability to play!
Embark | tvandijk
Just to add to what Dusty just said, we're working pretty closely with CodeWeavers to QA every release we put out there since about Season 5, and I don't see a reason to stop that. It's not exactly a collaboration, but we do catch issues with SteamDeck early because at the very least they do a pass on the game before we release a patch. Do we miss some things once in a while, absolutely. It's not our primary platform after all, but we understand there is a pretty passionate and growing playerbase on SteamDeck. Please keep reporting issues here, to our support, or report them to the Proton devs directly, and we will investigate what we can do to fix things...
Can't help but notice they specifically did not mention "Linux".
Also "upmost"
-
Can't help but notice they specifically did not mention "Linux".
Also "upmost"
They did say and/or steamdeck, and specifically called out Wine and Proton, so I presume the changes are OS agnostic. It's just the steamdeck has become synonymous with Linux gaming in the public eye.
-
Those are valid concerns, but I don't see any reason to believe that a hybrid approach for handling the two ecosystem couldn't be possible. As mentioned by their discord posts, their patches to the game are directly parsed by CodeWeavers, and options for server-sided anticheat or a Valve-style "Trust Factor" are both on the table.
I could also see this being beneficial regardless of the eventualities because of the barrier of entry - novice or less tech savvy users who wish to remain on the Windows platform and desire to cheat could be more deterred (or caught) by the kernel level anticheat. On the other side of the aisle, linux users could be targeted with a Trust Factor or higher level of User-space scrutiny, given a lower likelihood for running an excessive amount of background processes (compared to Windows).
I think the real answer is going to be an evolving server side anti-cheat. If you do it client side, they will always find a way round it.
-
They did say and/or steamdeck, and specifically called out Wine and Proton, so I presume the changes are OS agnostic. It's just the steamdeck has become synonymous with Linux gaming in the public eye.
They did say and/or steamdeck
Yes but they did not say Linux. Some devs are making their games available on Steam Deck while blocking them from wider Linux compatibility.
-
I think the real answer is going to be an evolving server side anti-cheat. If you do it client side, they will always find a way round it.
But that idea puts their servers at risk if the code is bad.
Somehow ... not an issue for client-side ...
-
Can't help but notice they specifically did not mention "Linux".
Also "upmost"
I mean to be fair, the finals has never actually supported Linux. Its a thing the team seems to try and maintain but you can't get any official support and Embark has never really mentioned it in an official capacity.
So, at least in this case, them doing their "upmost" ability to keep it working is what they have been doing all along so it's okay.
-
I mean to be fair, the finals has never actually supported Linux. Its a thing the team seems to try and maintain but you can't get any official support and Embark has never really mentioned it in an official capacity.
So, at least in this case, them doing their "upmost" ability to keep it working is what they have been doing all along so it's okay.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I don't know what that has to do with anything. I wasn't criticizing their Linux support. I don't get upset when a dev doesn't support Linux (especailly now with Proton), only when they go out of their way to explicitly prevent it.
-
Embark | Dusty @NAMA
Hey guys! There are no plans to drop support for SteamOS/Proton/ Wine and/or Steam Deck, despite us not officially supporting the platform. We will do our utmost best to maintain your ability to play!
Embark | tvandijk
Just to add to what Dusty just said, we're working pretty closely with CodeWeavers to QA every release we put out there since about Season 5, and I don't see a reason to stop that. It's not exactly a collaboration, but we do catch issues with SteamDeck early because at the very least they do a pass on the game before we release a patch. Do we miss some things once in a while, absolutely. It's not our primary platform after all, but we understand there is a pretty passionate and growing playerbase on SteamDeck. Please keep reporting issues here, to our support, or report them to the Proton devs directly, and we will investigate what we can do to fix things...
But didn't Windows just announced that they wish to stop kernel-level security?
-
They did say and/or steamdeck
Yes but they did not say Linux. Some devs are making their games available on Steam Deck while blocking them from wider Linux compatibility.
What? Who? I haven't seen anything like this and I don't understand how it would be possible.
-
But didn't Windows just announced that they wish to stop kernel-level security?
I’m glad we agree that anti-cheat is a security measure.
-
What? Who? I haven't seen anything like this and I don't understand how it would be possible.
-
This was their reasoning for kernels based anti-cheat:
Security
With every big update comes a renewed commitment from our Anti-Cheat team:
Cheat makers operate in a low-risk, high-reward world. They profit by selling cheats, oftentimes packing them with malware that harms their own customers, and they face very little consequences for their actions. Meanwhile, players who use their cheats risk losing everything: their accounts, their money, their time, and their chance to participate in events and competitions.
Our strategy for combating this is simple: raise the cost, difficulty, and time required to develop and distribute cheats.
As mentioned in the 7.0 patch notes, a lot of cheats these days use a kernel-driver to read and write memory to gain an unfair advantage. This means that they run in a privileged mode in the Windows operating system, making it unlikely and in some cases impossible to detect via Anti-Cheat in the game client. The technical solution to combat this is kernel-driver Anti-Cheat. We believe that this is, and will be, a requirement for every competitive multiplayer game for the foreseeable future.
We’re also using machine learning to analyze player behavior, and we have been doing so since the launch of THE FINALS. Machine learning provides valuable insights, especially when detecting cheats such as aimbot usage.
In the coming months, we will also begin an incremental rollout of a new kernel-based anti-cheat solution, intended to significantly raise the bar for cheat makers.
Cheat makers exploit everyone: players, developers, and the community itself. We’re committed to protecting fair play and adapting to new threats.
Despite claims from cheat developers that they’re “undetectable,” every cheat leaves breadcrumbs and we’ve been following them. Closely.
Honestly, the game had so many bugs in its lifetime so far I fear running their buggy code on the kernel level will irreversibly kill my operating system.
-
Honestly, the game had so many bugs in its lifetime so far I fear running their buggy code on the kernel level will irreversibly kill my operating system.
Damn, at least you won't have to play it anymore, right?
-
-
Damn, at least you won't have to play it anymore, right?
I've got over 1000 hours in the game. I can't stop. Please send help.
