Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann
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If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can't install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn't I go with Apple?
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
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That’s convenient to swap a battery but I feel like my phone is more likely to get soaked than need a battery swap at any time in the next two years. The FP6 is IP55 rated.
Looks like FP6 battery is £45 and iPhone 14 is £60-£90 depending where you buy it. I know I can get that done in the next hour or two where I live, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
The replaceable camera feature is more compelling because a broken front iPhone camera can effectively brick the device.
A replaceable usb-c port is great too. My previous Nokia 8.1 died because of that, and my previous FP5 needed a replacement after 2 years of use.
But I agree that Fairphone have work to do on waterproofing their phones. It was hard with the previous hand removable back panel, but now that they added screws to the back panel, it wouldn't be that much of a a stretch to add some o-rings to further waterproof it. I'm sure they could get it to IP66 rather easily, maybe IP67 with a little more work.
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Here you can see current state: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
In theory it will just be another Linux able to run on everything Linux supports + Android hardware. Honestly I don't know if it will ever run on common modern phones but it should at least be possible to run it on more "open" phones like Fairphone or PinePhone.
Can you just refuse to upgrade your 2021 or previous (nothing on their device list applies to models released after 2021) to not be affected by this policy change? I have never noticed a useful feature in android version upgrades for quite a while now.
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Bluetooth alternatives aren't better, that's laughable.
You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don't use Bluetooth.
The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don't have Bluetooth.
So when you say they're better 1. You're wrong. And 2. You're missing the point.
If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You're only ok with it because it doesn't effect you and I think that's appalling.
Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say "that's fine, wired headphones are better anyway". It's not about that, it's about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
You are right. But for >99% of users Bluetooth is a perfectly sufficient connection format for headphones.
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You're not being honest. They struggled to deliver their ambitious mainline Linux phone on time during Covid yes, but they eventually delivered. The fact that they did is a huge win for the mobile Linux ecosystem becoming a real contender just when we need it. All their other products are just fine.
NXP i.MX family debuted in 2013; Intel i7 family in 2008. Their phone uses a 2017 i.MX 8M Quad, the same year they crowdfunded their phone. 2017 i7 computers are equally not from 2008..
It still today remains one of the best ARM processors with open source drivers without an integrated baseband. It means basically any flavour of Linux can install on the device, with a significant layer of protection from carrier conduited attacks. Other modules have similar tradeoffs between performance and interoperability/security.
Want better specs? We either need SoC companies to release more of their drivers open source, or more people to patiently reverse engineer closed source ones.
wrote last edited by [email protected]They struggled to deliver their ambitious mainline Linux phone on time during Covid yes, but they eventually delivered.
And for the people who requested refunds who waited months if not never received them? Despite them moving back their timeline literal years with repeated delays? I don't care what challenges they faced; they knowingly took people's money and refused to give it back to them when they couldn't deliver. It's their responsibility to be prepared for challenges. And in some extreme edge case where they couldn't have been prepared, it's their responsibility to be transparent about that to the people who gave them over a million dollars (let alone purchased the product after the Kickstarter was finished). I suppose too that the pandemic affected Purism in January 2019 when they were supposed to deliver their product?
The fact that they did is a huge win for the mobile Linux ecosystem becoming a real contender just when we need it.
The Librem 5 is not a contender for shit. It's so overpriced that it can only be successfully marketed to people who care so deeply about their privacy that they're willing to use an inconvenient mobile OS, get completely boned on hardware specs, and deal with a company notorious for fucking over its customers. Purism's behavior is a fucking embarrassment to the Linux ecosystem.
NXP i.MX family debuted in 2013; Intel i7 family in 2008. Their phone uses a 2017 i.MX 8M Quad, the same year they crowdfunded their phone.
That CPU is based on the ARM Cortex-A53 and Cortex-M4, launched in 2012 and 2009, respectively.
2017 i7 computers are equally not from 2008…
When I say "2013", I'm not talking about the debut year of i.MX. I'm talking about the fact that you can compare this phone side-by-side with a Galaxy S4 or S5. 3 GB of RAM, 32 GB of eMMC storage, a 720 x 1440p IPS display, no NFC, USB 3.0, an 8/13 MP front/back camera (which they inexplicably call "Mpx"; good job, guys), 802.11n Wi-Fi, no waterproofing, and a shitty-ass i.MX 8M CPU. I still remember watching a trailer for the Librem 5's continuing development, and as they were scrolling through a web browser, it was noticeably stuttering. This was years and years ago; I can't even imagine it today.
It still today remains one of the best ARM processors with open source drivers without an integrated baseband. It means basically any flavour of Linux can install on the device, with a significant layer of protection from carrier conduited attacks. Other modules have similar tradeoffs between performance and interoperability/security.
I do not give even the slightest inkling of a shit try to confirm or deny this, so I'm just going to assume it's 100% true, because it's not relevant to the point that the spec is absolute trash and being sold for $800. If you are not absolutely married to privacy, this is not a sellable product in 2025.
Want better specs? We either need SoC companies to release more of their drivers open source, or more people to patiently reverse engineer closed source ones.
Actually, if I want better specs, I'm just going to go out and buy a phone that isn't from Purism. It really sucks that it's not open, private hardware, but Purism is such a scummy company that so wantonly fucks over their customers that I wouldn't touch the Librem 5 even if I could justify spending $800 for that spec just for privacy's sake.
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Sideloading being so easy on iphones and now becoming very difficult on android. Wow
They are converging to become the same thing.
Its not any better on iOS, fyi, they too require Apple's final approval.
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No, but limited thinking sure as fuck is. If everyone jumped on to say, cheap iphones, the android market would suffer greatly, forcing the company to rethink its position on anti consumer practices. You dont have to stay on the cheap shitty iphone, you just need to stay on it long enough to make your voice heard.
This is the problem with everyone. You all just moan about enshittification, while doing nothing at all to combat it. Its always a list of terrible excuses. No one takes short term pain for long term benefit. Pussies.
Cheap iphone?
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Bluetooth alternatives aren't better, that's laughable.
You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don't use Bluetooth.
The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don't have Bluetooth.
So when you say they're better 1. You're wrong. And 2. You're missing the point.
If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You're only ok with it because it doesn't effect you and I think that's appalling.
Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say "that's fine, wired headphones are better anyway". It's not about that, it's about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
There are a lot of very good Bluetooth headphones from Bose, Sony, and the like. If you take a look at lab tests, most of lf them got a frequency response pretty close to the ideal curve, and ANC helps a lot to isolate outside noises that would drown out the music on wired headphones.
But I do agree about choice, just not on the blind refusal of using USB-C adapters. That's unfortunate that they removed it, but it has some good reasons. A headphone jack wasn't made to be waterproof, and if some managed to make some of them waterproof-ish, it is often by enclosing it into its own little sub-enclosure, with a good short-circuit protection (because even a tiny water drop in there mean a short), both of which takes place.
Same goes for the DAC, we got so far into miniaturizing it, and inside interferences are so high now with new technologies, it probably wouldn't be viable anymore to have it inside the phone itself. Even larger device, like the Steam Deck, have problems preventing interferences on the headphones jack, so that must be an even bigger problem on something as tinny as a phone
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Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
wrote last edited by [email protected]2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
or 2027. Or some Chinese variant of android on Chinese/Taiwan phone that allows sideloading, perhaps with alternate playstore and maps. I don't yet understand how draconian this actually gets implemented, but death of android/google (to me) is possible. If hardware is good enough, then android emulator will be fine for legacy apps.
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If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can't install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn't I go with Apple?
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
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Sideloading being so easy on iphones and now becoming very difficult on android. Wow
Yeah but don't you have to boot up your PC and connect your phone to iTunes once a week to re-enable developer mode to be able to sideload? Is there a more permanent method that I'm unaware of?
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Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
$600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you're getting a flagship phone. You couldn't pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They're too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that's a couple of generations old.
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You can have both or you can deny people who like wired. You are choosing denial.
Those who like wired aren't out of option either. Adapters exists, are cheap, and have often a far better audio quality than integrated ports due to not being as size constrained as the main body itself, and being further from interferences.
You can quite easily find some that allows to charge your phone at the same time (even if the usb-c norm do not allows it on paper). -
$600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you're getting a flagship phone. You couldn't pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They're too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that's a couple of generations old.
wrote last edited by [email protected]A $200 phone in 2015 is not the same as a $200 phone in 2025. I know from experience.
Those phones in 2015 were awful, but in 2025, they feel more like mid-range phones.
Edit: And $600 is pocket change? Sound like someone lived a privilaged life.
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As a user I don't have a problem with this , as long it's used ethically. The question is if Google can act ethically.
You don't have a problem with Google dictating what you can and cannot do on your own phone? Seriously?
What's the benefit of that?
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so is this why my phone updated and then took seven hours to connect to the network the other day?
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There are a lot of very good Bluetooth headphones from Bose, Sony, and the like. If you take a look at lab tests, most of lf them got a frequency response pretty close to the ideal curve, and ANC helps a lot to isolate outside noises that would drown out the music on wired headphones.
But I do agree about choice, just not on the blind refusal of using USB-C adapters. That's unfortunate that they removed it, but it has some good reasons. A headphone jack wasn't made to be waterproof, and if some managed to make some of them waterproof-ish, it is often by enclosing it into its own little sub-enclosure, with a good short-circuit protection (because even a tiny water drop in there mean a short), both of which takes place.
Same goes for the DAC, we got so far into miniaturizing it, and inside interferences are so high now with new technologies, it probably wouldn't be viable anymore to have it inside the phone itself. Even larger device, like the Steam Deck, have problems preventing interferences on the headphones jack, so that must be an even bigger problem on something as tinny as a phoneciting bose and sony vs sennheiser audeze and beyerdynamics, dude, you don't know headphones
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Wasn't always the case (I think it changed within the past two years), but upon doing research on when it changed I stumbled on this gem.
It's been the case ever since I started using Android (and modded APKs such as old versions of apps re-signed to not update) in about 2011.
Some of the root apps back then such as Titanium Backup had features to "unhook" an app so it wouldn't appear as installed in the store, but my experience was that it never lasted long enough to be worth doing.
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A $200 phone in 2015 is not the same as a $200 phone in 2025. I know from experience.
Those phones in 2015 were awful, but in 2025, they feel more like mid-range phones.
Edit: And $600 is pocket change? Sound like someone lived a privilaged life.
This 100%
I have used tracfone since 2012 and only bought phones from their store, sub $150. The budget phones today are so much better than the last 10 years.
I just can't wrap my head around sinking that much into a phone when you replace it every year and it cost as much as a decent budget computer, but worse.
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How does this affect "second-party" apps (i.e. apps you have created yourself)? Are you still allowed to go to Android studio, make an APK, transfer it to your own phone, and install that app? If no, this spells the death of experimental indie developers on Android.
