Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann
-
I find it very strange how many people in the comments here think the solution is to buy an iPhone. Maybe you are all just rich and can afford to spend $1000+ based on vibes, but considering the Android market still has a massive value advantage I'm not really sure what the point of switching is. This all feels very similar to how some Westerners decided Chinese tech and even the Chinese government were suddenly problem-free just because Americans elected Trump for a second time.
Can you even (easily) install custom apps on iOS?
The last thing I remember is it being a huge pain in the butt... -
Can you at least put a custom ROM on to disable this?
Afaik, yes
-
Yes, in a way it's like linux more than a decade ago. Kinda fun tbh, looking forward to giving it a try.
More like linux in the 90s
-
Code signing offers slight protection from malware but not as you might think. If a company signs an installer, or executable then it tells you it came from them but not what it does. It could still be malicious, or it could be inadvertently bundled with malware in DLLs or scripts and you wouldn't know. You're just hoping the company has done its due diligence and you trust them to run.
Microsoft does have an antivirus system on top and fingerprints downloads too and applies some kind of trust score that is better if an exe is signed. There is probably no single mitigation that stops malware infection but apply lots of smaller mitigations in in depth and most people will be safe.
The irony is Microsoft still lets people run files ending with .scr way too easily. Much of the malware on torrent websites is a file ending with .scr knowing the OS will hide the extension, e.g. movie.mp4.scr appears as movie.mp4 in File Explorer and people click through and get infected.
These arguments would apply the same to Google's approach. My argument is that Google appears to have another agenda.
-
Gonna have to elaborate on this because the European union has both good and bad people pulling strings.
If this is about chatcontrol. Scary as it is that the idea keeps coming back it has also always gotten shot down.
them bringing it up again and again is a very significant problem. Imagine you're spending time with a girl and asking her to have sex with you. She says "no", and you simply keep asking her daily until she says "yes" once, probably because she's just not paying attention to your actual question on that day. Such a behavior would be recognized by most people as being improper, immoral and not in the spirit of "consent".
Now, the same is happening on the EU. They keep asking the same question after they already got an explicit answer, and such a behavior should be illegal by itself. No means No.
-
So in your world, a completely locked down phone is better than a phone that you can easily open up again by flashing a ROM or replacing Gservices for MicroG with adb + Magisk?
not every android phone's hardware even allows installing custom ROMs, as far as i'm aware of. and even if the phone technically does allow it, that doesn't mean that any good custom ROMs are even available for it. so the issue is a bit more difficult than that.
-
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
Yeah but my banks don't support my small portable PC, nor does my mobile phone provider. If I wanted a small portable PC I'd get a small portable PC. What I want is a smartphone.
-
I have LineageOS on my second phone, so the issue doesn't apply to custom ROMs, as the developers assured me. On my main phone, however, I still have the stock ROM because it's a new and expensive phone, and there are no custom ROMs for it yet, especially as it's a MediaTek. If they try to block sideloading, it would be a good time to report it to the European Union.
Just get root, and it wouldn't be too difficult to bypass.
I already bypass many of Google's stupid and arbitrary restrictions like their minimal SDK version requirement for side-loading apps and such with Magisk and Xposed modules.
-
Openness isn't just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the "need to know" for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won't use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
wrote last edited by [email protected]now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they're given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn't to surveil or suppress people, it's just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it's a charity, because otherwise there's nobody to "talk to" when there's issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
that doesn't mean that you can't donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don't need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don't personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it's just an extra step, not a block-all.
-
I'm just saying Apple doesn't make anything close to a cheap stripped down $200 model.
I made the comparison based on feature set. For that you need an android flagship phone. Android DOES make cheap phones....but therexs no 1:1 comparison for Apple.
i have a phone for less than $200 and it works fine.
-
As more countries within the EU shift to right wing governments, the EU as a political body itself will also shift more to the right.
Ah, yeah I don't like that trend that's been going on. Or like chatcontrol that somehow seems to find it's way back despite being shot down again and again.
-
You are right. But for >99% of users Bluetooth is a perfectly sufficient connection format for headphones.
I work in IT and pairing bluetooth is sometimes so finnicky i give up for a few days. I can accept that I'm not that great at IT but I don't think 99% of people don't have these problems.
And it's not a thing you do one time, most of these gadgets need re-pairing every sone time for whatever reason.
-
Can you even (easily) install custom apps on iOS?
The last thing I remember is it being a huge pain in the butt...If you're in the EU there is now at least one alternative app store. iOS hasn't opened up anywhere else in the world AFAIK, so it's still a pain for everyone else. You used to be able to use the AltStore without jailbreaking iOS (maybe you still can), but the process was annoying and didn't feel particularly secure as you had to provide your Apple account details.
-
Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days
Disputable.
- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
wrote last edited by [email protected]Missed a few things.
- They are cable-less, thus they use a battery and have a shorter lifespan
- The batteries they use are generally not user replaceable so they turn into e-waste rather quickly
- Due to the reduced bluetooth bandwidth, call quality is crap
- Sound quality is worse than a wired headphone that costs the same
-
As more countries within the EU shift to right wing governments, the EU as a political body itself will also shift more to the right.
@simsalabim @greenacres3233 EU is first a financial economic project then MAYBE a corrupt democratic project
-
Are you sure it won't apply? As far as I understand, it'll apply to all devices with Google services installed. Which includes most ROMs, as well as non-Google ROMs after you manually install gapps. Is my understanding off?
wrote last edited by [email protected]The requirements apply to all "Google-certified Android devices" which includes:
Devices with Google Play Store
Devices with Google Mobile Services (GMS)
Devices with Play Protect
All mainstream Android devices from manufacturers including Samsung, Xiaomi, Motorola, OnePlus, and Google Pixel
Custom ROMs without Google services & uncertified devices are not affected by these restrictions.
From the linked wiki.
-
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
Not a major drawback, IMO.
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
True, but I haven't lost any in the something like 6 years I've been using them.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
What's your threat model? Who's going to be attacking your security via your headphones? What happens if they succeed?
IMO this is a pretty ridiculous drawback, it's like saying "wired headphones are worse because the wire can be used as a garrote", which is true, but not an actual drawback for 99.999% of people.
transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
So what?
IMO the drawbacks of wired headphones are:
- The cable often gets tangled, and it's a pain in the ass to untangle it
- The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
- The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
- Even when the cable isn't tangled, just arranging the wire so it's out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
- Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it's out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
- Because of the wire, you're limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that's more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you're listening to.
- If you're doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can't put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you're moving to the sink to wash them off.
- In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that's convenient.
The headphone wire is a potential personal security vulnerability as a ninja can use it to garrote you.
The drawbacks for a wireless headset are:
- They tend to have batteries that can't be replaced, so eventually they lose their ability to hold a charge and need to be replaced. It can get really annoying to use them when the batteries are starting to fail and they hold less than an hour of charge.
- They tend to be much more expensive than wired headphones.
- Wireless buds are easier to lose, and easier to drop. If you drop them they can bounce and roll under things, or into the street or who knows where.
- They do eventually run out of charge, and you do have to charge them, and sometimes they can be low on charge / out of charge when you want to use them.
- There's a fair amount of lag, which can be annoying when you're trying to skip commercials on podcasts and so-on.
First of all, you're forgetting that the actual problem is that the headphone jack does not require you remove bluetooth from the device. The issue here is giving user less options and more costly "solutions".
The cable often gets tangled, and it's a pain in the ass to untangle it
Git gud. It's not that hard to roll up the cable so that it doesn't tangle. Worst case scenario, you can buy a small case.
The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
Use headphones with a replaceable wire. That way you can use a cable with or without a mic or use different lentghs. Hell, you can even make your own and they're cheap. Even if the wire isn't easily replaceable, most headphones can be fixed with a bit of patience and a soldering iron.
Even when the cable isn't tangled, just arranging the wire so it's out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
You're just doing mental gymnastics at this point.
Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it's out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
Or you can, I don't know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
Because of the wire, you're limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that's more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you're listening to.
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin'.
If you're doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can't put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you're moving to the sink to wash them off.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You're cooking in a kitchen. Lose the headphones.
In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that's convenient.
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won't have this """problem""".
-
Can you at least put a custom ROM on to disable this?
The issue is that Android used to be open source but they're moving to closed source under the guise of security as well which will make it difficult/impossible to update the rom
-
Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027.
Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot).
As for the headphone jack, I'm afraid it won't come back. Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days (I got both, so I know from experience), and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.saying "bluetooth alternatives are far better these days" ignores the uses cases for cable.
-
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
What... the Fuck?
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
afaik only in the EU?
