Fairphone announces the €599 Fairphone 6, with a 6.31" 120Hz LTPO OLED display, a Snapdragon 7s Gen 3 chip, and enhanced modularity with 12 swappable parts
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First of all no, i dont want to carry a dongle as i may plug in multiple headsets.
Second of all, i want to charge my phone while listening to music, and i want even less to carry a doubling d'ongle
Third of all, i fail to see the "eco responsible" part of needing to buy more things than nécessary, then wearing down needlessly the usb-c over time.
So, with all due respect, piss off
PS : you're the same kind of person who said "don't want a phone without headphone jack? Only buy one that has one instead of complaining" when apple started the trend, and guess what mfers, i'm never stopping complaining
You’re going to plug in multiple headsets to your phone in regularly? You can’t just have a cheap dongle on those headsets’ cables?
Funny how almost everyone in here saying they need the 3.5mm jack also just happens to have a dozen pairs of headphones they use every day lol.
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Tried that. Gets lost real fast. But thanks "freedom advocate".
Tried taking better care of your things? I’ve still got mine that came with my pixel 3 and my iPhone 11 Pro.
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Problem is BT headphones last 2 years then they go in the garbage because the batteries are dead. How eco-friendly is that!?
My 7 years old bluetooth headphone would disagree.
It is. We had it on phones since before the original iPhone. No one wants to take that away.
And no one except a vocal minority want to keep it. There are a lot on data on that, and manufacturer make their decision on that data.
But lets ignore that, and let's take my viewpoint as a customer. I don't want a port I have no use for. I don't want a DAC I have no use for. I don't want the extra weight that comes with them.
My needs conflict with yours, so what's the only way to make both of us somewhat happy? That's by making the 3.5mm jack an addon, which is what any manufacturer that does not focus on music listening would do.
And no one except a vocal minority want to keep it. There are a lot on data on that,
I would love to see the data that says everyone wants wired devices only. I don't believe you.
don't want a port I have no use for.
Why would you even care!?
I don't want the extra weight that comes with them.
Buddy if you don't want extra weight you need to talk to these OEMs about making their phones out of giant slabs of glass. A 1g connector isn't going to make a difference. You're being completely ridiculous.My needs conflict with yours,
No they don't. They can meet both of our needs by including a jack. Simple as.
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Tried taking better care of your things? I’ve still got mine that came with my pixel 3 and my iPhone 11 Pro.
Okay so now this is my fault. Do you know how many adapters I lost before I needed one?
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My wired earbuds cost more than ten times that and will probably last me until I retire. The vast majority of those USB-c to 3.5mm adapters are cheap crap that have a worthless DAC and/or fall apart after a short time. I have purchased my wife three such adapters since she decided it was worth it to get a phone without a headphone jack and none of them have been good.
I ended up having to buy her a separate portable music player to use. So thanks for that Google, Apple, and the rest of the greedy shithead OEMs.
Which brand of adpater did you get? If you got a generic one then a bad DAC and durability aren't surprises.
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And no one except a vocal minority want to keep it. There are a lot on data on that,
I would love to see the data that says everyone wants wired devices only. I don't believe you.
don't want a port I have no use for.
Why would you even care!?
I don't want the extra weight that comes with them.
Buddy if you don't want extra weight you need to talk to these OEMs about making their phones out of giant slabs of glass. A 1g connector isn't going to make a difference. You're being completely ridiculous.My needs conflict with yours,
No they don't. They can meet both of our needs by including a jack. Simple as.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm voluntarily exagerating my point here for irony sake.
My needs isn't more important than anyone else, but I wanted to point out the selfishness of the oposite point of view by making mine as selfish.
Those in favor of keeping a jack port voluntarily choose to ignore any alternative, while trying to force their need on other people.But it is true I do not want that port back. It is redundant, has no advantages over a dongle, and it inconveniences could easily be overcome by simply adding a second usb-c port. No need for internal DAC, you'd be able to do far more than you'll ever be able to do with a 3.5mm jack, and you'll be able to charge it while listening to your music with a wired headphone. All that with a smaller and more flexible port.
And it would take you 5min searching the web to get good review about usbc DAC with actually good sound, even better than any internal DAC.
But to save you a click, you have the Apple one, which has good review while being able to drive almost all headphones but the most energy intensive of them. It cost a whopping... $10.
As for the precise number, you can find them on market studies. Unfortunately they are quite pricy, and as I'm not in that field, I do not have access to them. But Fairphone does, and if they don't bother adding that port back, they are most probably basing their decision on them.
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I'm voluntarily exagerating my point here for irony sake.
My needs isn't more important than anyone else, but I wanted to point out the selfishness of the oposite point of view by making mine as selfish.
Those in favor of keeping a jack port voluntarily choose to ignore any alternative, while trying to force their need on other people.But it is true I do not want that port back. It is redundant, has no advantages over a dongle, and it inconveniences could easily be overcome by simply adding a second usb-c port. No need for internal DAC, you'd be able to do far more than you'll ever be able to do with a 3.5mm jack, and you'll be able to charge it while listening to your music with a wired headphone. All that with a smaller and more flexible port.
And it would take you 5min searching the web to get good review about usbc DAC with actually good sound, even better than any internal DAC.
But to save you a click, you have the Apple one, which has good review while being able to drive almost all headphones but the most energy intensive of them. It cost a whopping... $10.
As for the precise number, you can find them on market studies. Unfortunately they are quite pricy, and as I'm not in that field, I do not have access to them. But Fairphone does, and if they don't bother adding that port back, they are most probably basing their decision on them.
wrote last edited by [email protected]My needs isn't more important than anyone else, but I wanted to point out the selfishness of the oposite point of view by making mine as selfish.
There's nothing selfish here. Keeping the jack benefits everyone except Apple and other BT headphone OEMs. It doesn't hurt anyone else.
has no advantages over a dongle
The advantage is that you don't need a dongle...
and it inconveniences easily be overcome by simply adding a second usb-c port
Still requires carrying a dongle or buying a pair of headphones that only works with phones and computers, and not the vast array of other devices that still use headphone jacks, new and old. So that solves absolutely nothing. As I said elsewhere, we've created a competing standard, for no reason.
you'd be able to do far more than you'll ever be able to do with a 3.5mm jack
What? Do you think we're suggesting removing the USB port? What are you talking about?
And it would take you 5min searching the web to get good review about usbc DAC with actually good sound, even better than any internal DAC.
I don't want to search the web. I don't want a DAC. I just want to plug in my headphones. This is absurd.
It cost a whopping... $10.
$10 to buy something that previously cost me $0. Only it's inevitably going to get lost so you'd better buy a half dozen of them and replace them every few years, so you're looking at dozens of $ per year for something that was previously completely unnecessary.
As for the precise number...I'm not in that field, I do not have access to them
Yeah, I didn't think so.
But Fairphone does
Where? If you know they have it, then you must have it as well?
and if they don't bother adding that port back, they are most probably basing their decision on them.
No, they're basing that decision on the same thing everyone else is: money. Greed. Much like Apple they also released their own bluetooth headphones at the same time as they removed their headphone jack. But I suppose that's just coincidence, right?
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Well, technically no phones are made in the US. I think you're talking about selling phones there. Regardless, you might have poor short term memory because they only pulled out of the US phone market (which is pretty crappy) a little over a year ago I believe.
I can't help but detect some passive hostility in your response.
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You’re going to plug in multiple headsets to your phone in regularly? You can’t just have a cheap dongle on those headsets’ cables?
Funny how almost everyone in here saying they need the 3.5mm jack also just happens to have a dozen pairs of headphones they use every day lol.
So much for eco responsibilty to buy dongles that could be avoided and wear usb-c.
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My needs isn't more important than anyone else, but I wanted to point out the selfishness of the oposite point of view by making mine as selfish.
There's nothing selfish here. Keeping the jack benefits everyone except Apple and other BT headphone OEMs. It doesn't hurt anyone else.
has no advantages over a dongle
The advantage is that you don't need a dongle...
and it inconveniences easily be overcome by simply adding a second usb-c port
Still requires carrying a dongle or buying a pair of headphones that only works with phones and computers, and not the vast array of other devices that still use headphone jacks, new and old. So that solves absolutely nothing. As I said elsewhere, we've created a competing standard, for no reason.
you'd be able to do far more than you'll ever be able to do with a 3.5mm jack
What? Do you think we're suggesting removing the USB port? What are you talking about?
And it would take you 5min searching the web to get good review about usbc DAC with actually good sound, even better than any internal DAC.
I don't want to search the web. I don't want a DAC. I just want to plug in my headphones. This is absurd.
It cost a whopping... $10.
$10 to buy something that previously cost me $0. Only it's inevitably going to get lost so you'd better buy a half dozen of them and replace them every few years, so you're looking at dozens of $ per year for something that was previously completely unnecessary.
As for the precise number...I'm not in that field, I do not have access to them
Yeah, I didn't think so.
But Fairphone does
Where? If you know they have it, then you must have it as well?
and if they don't bother adding that port back, they are most probably basing their decision on them.
No, they're basing that decision on the same thing everyone else is: money. Greed. Much like Apple they also released their own bluetooth headphones at the same time as they removed their headphone jack. But I suppose that's just coincidence, right?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Could also have been the other way around.
Fairphone removes the headphone jack > realize they would need an alternative > realize most TW headphones are e-waste to be > make their own with
blackjack and hookersa removable battery, making it a solution to TW headphones with non-removable batteries.Don't call fool without any proof, or you'll have a very sad life supposing the worst from anyone you'll meet. Coincidence is no proof of causation.
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Could also have been the other way around.
Fairphone removes the headphone jack > realize they would need an alternative > realize most TW headphones are e-waste to be > make their own with
blackjack and hookersa removable battery, making it a solution to TW headphones with non-removable batteries.Don't call fool without any proof, or you'll have a very sad life supposing the worst from anyone you'll meet. Coincidence is no proof of causation.
Don't call fool without any proof
Brother, you're the one making claims without any proof.
Coincidence is no proof of causation.
Oh so you're actually naive enough to believe this is coincidence? I was joking earlier but you really believe it LOL.
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No, we aren't forgetting. Precisely because they are a corporation driven by profits like any other, they will do what sells units. It actually goes against the argument for headphone jacks. It is an admission that the people who vocally want phones with headphone jacks don't buy phones (even if they have headphone jacks) and are an statistically insignificant amount of people. My original point. You are vocal, but disingenuous (perhaps not on purpose).
Fairphone catered to the mass market with the Fairphone 4 (and removed the headphone jack) and broke their own sales records. Sorry, that's just the truth. What you want is against the grain of the rest of the market. Yes, even the market who want repairable modular phones.
Because when push comes to shove, you might want the headphone jack but it doesn't drive your purchase decision. And that's the important part. As an example, another person on this very thread asked what phone with a headphone jack is good, someone else gave a suggestion and immediately got the reply.
I considered that phone, but it didn't have an OLED screen, so I didn't buy it.
Admitting that — despite being very vocal about wanting the headphone jack — that feature is actually low in their own list of decision making priorities. At the very least it is below screen quality. Raising the question, where should a profit driven company choose to invest money in when presented with that customer?
In marketing, people are usually very vocal about things that actually don't influence their own purchase decisions. That's just a fact, people are very bad at knowing what they want. That's why you should always observe their behavior, not just ask their opinion. Because a lot of people express opinions they don't uphold with actions.
wrote last edited by [email protected]They lose no customers by including it. They lose some by omitting it.
So it boils down to being too expensive to include? Hardly!
You evaluate prior decisions with posterior data. But you fail to take into account the counterfactuals. How do you know how much the FP4 would have sold with a jack?
Claiming that an increase in sales validates the goodness of the decision is not causal.
It is the same logic that would tell you that playing russian roulette is worthwile in case you win and get some reward. That's backwards rationalization, fitting a narrative.
If market research universally showed that people don't care about a jack then why do some phones still have it? Are these manufacturers going against the grain? Surely they wouldn't leave money on the table if it worked like that.
The justification of "they do what sells units" is backwards. It would imply that no product would ever flop. But products regularly do. There is no telling in advance how it will perform, and saying otherwise is falling prey to the problem of induction, whether past observarions justify predictions.
The FP4 could have broke sales records for a multitude of reasons. How can you say which factor caused it when there is only one scenario that played out? We don't have alternative universes to compare, where they released one with a jack, or another with some other altered specs.
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Which brand of adpater did you get? If you got a generic one then a bad DAC and durability aren't surprises.
I've used three: one was generic (it was at the time the only way to get one that could charge and have a headphone out in the same dongle), one was from Fiio (surprisingly bad sounding, maybe worse than the generic in some ways, but better build), and one was the official Google dongle (sounded clean, but was super weak. Couldn't power even my lightest headphones that weren't IEMs). The only one I still have is the Google dongle because the others broke, but I don't use it because it still kinda sucks. I ended up being forced to buy a phone without a headphone jack fairly recently because Google more or less killed my Pixel 4a and there were no replacement phones with headphones jacks that I could put GrapheneOS on. I ended up buying myself a portable music player to list to music on. My phone is now only for listening to music in the car and it sucks
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I've used three: one was generic (it was at the time the only way to get one that could charge and have a headphone out in the same dongle), one was from Fiio (surprisingly bad sounding, maybe worse than the generic in some ways, but better build), and one was the official Google dongle (sounded clean, but was super weak. Couldn't power even my lightest headphones that weren't IEMs). The only one I still have is the Google dongle because the others broke, but I don't use it because it still kinda sucks. I ended up being forced to buy a phone without a headphone jack fairly recently because Google more or less killed my Pixel 4a and there were no replacement phones with headphones jacks that I could put GrapheneOS on. I ended up buying myself a portable music player to list to music on. My phone is now only for listening to music in the car and it sucks
Maybe try the Apple one when Android 16 comes out (in GrapheneOS form) which fixes the volume issues.
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Maybe try the Apple one when Android 16 comes out (in GrapheneOS form) which fixes the volume issues.
From what I understand there are better dongles now than that they can perform better than the Apple dongle, but the one everyone raves about that was $20 - $30 or so is now hard to come brand is going for closer to $80 (I think it is the Jcally JM20 Max). I don't see a reason to bother spending more money chasing this crap now that I've had to buy both my wife and I standalone music players. What I do know is that the first company that releases a decent phone that has a headphone jack that fits my other needs is getting my Money. If Fairphone has brought it back, it would have been them since they have decent ROM alternatives (though not GrapheneOS).
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They lose no customers by including it. They lose some by omitting it.
So it boils down to being too expensive to include? Hardly!
You evaluate prior decisions with posterior data. But you fail to take into account the counterfactuals. How do you know how much the FP4 would have sold with a jack?
Claiming that an increase in sales validates the goodness of the decision is not causal.
It is the same logic that would tell you that playing russian roulette is worthwile in case you win and get some reward. That's backwards rationalization, fitting a narrative.
If market research universally showed that people don't care about a jack then why do some phones still have it? Are these manufacturers going against the grain? Surely they wouldn't leave money on the table if it worked like that.
The justification of "they do what sells units" is backwards. It would imply that no product would ever flop. But products regularly do. There is no telling in advance how it will perform, and saying otherwise is falling prey to the problem of induction, whether past observarions justify predictions.
The FP4 could have broke sales records for a multitude of reasons. How can you say which factor caused it when there is only one scenario that played out? We don't have alternative universes to compare, where they released one with a jack, or another with some other altered specs.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm back to statistical significant data, and why it is important to have good data scientists in the loop. The idea is precisely to ask the questions you are asking. Would have been different if…? Then try to control for other variables in order to avoid the induction error. How do you know they didn't do this with their data?
That's why I mention other phone models. There are Sony phones with and without jacks. There are Asus phones with and without jacks. How did they perform compared to each other? How far away is that difference from what could be expected from randomness? How does that difference compare when the other factors are compensated for? How do they compare with other phones?
I assume they did their homework, and also want to sell more earbuds. They wouldn't push for earbuds and wireless if headphone jacks were market drivers. It would be cheaper to install a headphone jack rather than updating the BT board? Maybe, I don't know. But if other factors have a significant impact on sales while the jack doesn't. Then they have their decision made for them. Market research is not about being right all the time, it is not magic, it is about reducing uncertainty and risk in making decisions. Precisely because there are other phone makers with a headphone jack that do worse than the Fairphone is base enough to understand why they feel safe keeping that feature out. It doesn't add sales and its absence doesn't reduce them significantly either. So they know they are free to keep going even if some vocal critics will be pissed, the actual buyers couldn't care any less.
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Okay so now this is my fault. Do you know how many adapters I lost before I needed one?
Yes, losing your things is your fault lol
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Yes, losing your things is your fault lol
Is it my fault when having the things in the first place is just a hacky workaround driven by corporate greed?
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You can - Samsung phones are really well supported for that.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Can you show an example of one from 3 years ago?
Because my experience was that most ROMs were based on AOSP/ LineageOS , which supports very few Samsung phones, and no flagships since the 2018 S10.
And even of those, many didn't support IMS/VoLTE/VoWiFi which made them useless in any geos that didn't have 3G fallback for voice. You can't make or receive phone calls.
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I'm back to statistical significant data, and why it is important to have good data scientists in the loop. The idea is precisely to ask the questions you are asking. Would have been different if…? Then try to control for other variables in order to avoid the induction error. How do you know they didn't do this with their data?
That's why I mention other phone models. There are Sony phones with and without jacks. There are Asus phones with and without jacks. How did they perform compared to each other? How far away is that difference from what could be expected from randomness? How does that difference compare when the other factors are compensated for? How do they compare with other phones?
I assume they did their homework, and also want to sell more earbuds. They wouldn't push for earbuds and wireless if headphone jacks were market drivers. It would be cheaper to install a headphone jack rather than updating the BT board? Maybe, I don't know. But if other factors have a significant impact on sales while the jack doesn't. Then they have their decision made for them. Market research is not about being right all the time, it is not magic, it is about reducing uncertainty and risk in making decisions. Precisely because there are other phone makers with a headphone jack that do worse than the Fairphone is base enough to understand why they feel safe keeping that feature out. It doesn't add sales and its absence doesn't reduce them significantly either. So they know they are free to keep going even if some vocal critics will be pissed, the actual buyers couldn't care any less.
Money is a powerful motivator to do really crappy things, and Apple has done exactly that for decades now. Others are following suit in the lucrative accessory market.
But this is the smoking gun, pointed at the consumer.
Dongles are an admission that the phones they come with don't work in the way the company knows its consumers need them to.
Almost as insidious as how the inkjet printer manufacturers vendor lock and upcharge for ink. Profitable? Indeed. Despicable and anti-consumer? Very much so.
