Germany Turns to U.S. Playbook: Deportations Target Gaza War Protesters
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what antisemites? deporting people is a Nazi tactic so it's ironic to label this "combatting antisemitism".
I'm not supporting illegal deportation, but I'm also not supporting true "I really just hate jews because they are jews"-antisemites that unfortunately feel right at home in valid protests against Israel's actions.
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I'm not supporting illegal deportation, but I'm also not supporting true "I really just hate jews because they are jews"-antisemites that unfortunately feel right at home in valid protests against Israel's actions.
protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
most antisemites in Germany are pro-Israel, people that go at AfD marches to support Zionism by all means necessary in order to bring about the rapture of Jewish people from the Holy Lands.
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protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
most antisemites in Germany are pro-Israel, people that go at AfD marches to support Zionism by all means necessary in order to bring about the rapture of Jewish people from the Holy Lands.
I don't understand, the rapture of the Jewish people by establishing a Zionist ethno state? I think it's much simpler: The original fascists were antisemites because jews were the scapegoat that could mobilise the masses due to a hatred for jews that has been cultivated for centuries in Europe. The fascist(oid) populists today use arabs/muslims (not that the average AfD supporter knows the difference) and therefore show public support with a regime that already shows little mercy for those. And yeah, true neo nazis, islamists and whoever else hate jews will show up for the protests, and if there really need to be deportations, they should be first.
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I don't understand, the rapture of the Jewish people by establishing a Zionist ethno state? I think it's much simpler: The original fascists were antisemites because jews were the scapegoat that could mobilise the masses due to a hatred for jews that has been cultivated for centuries in Europe. The fascist(oid) populists today use arabs/muslims (not that the average AfD supporter knows the difference) and therefore show public support with a regime that already shows little mercy for those. And yeah, true neo nazis, islamists and whoever else hate jews will show up for the protests, and if there really need to be deportations, they should be first.
the deportation of anyone, regardless if they're a political enemy or not, is a direct pipeline to normalizing fascism.
this is an article exemplifying how fascism always comes for trans people first and you're here talking bs about islamists. most terrorists in Germany are white Germans.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
They should take this to ECJ. If I understand what I read correctly, this is clear treaty violation by Germany. Freedom of movement isn't some "oh we observe it, when we like it" thing. It is treaty bound obligation by member states who have ratified treaties. Take this all the way to ECJ and have it bonk bundestag and chancellery over the head with clown hammer of "it is pretty stupid you think treaty obligations arent legally binding mwmber state".
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the deportation of anyone, regardless if they're a political enemy or not, is a direct pipeline to normalizing fascism.
this is an article exemplifying how fascism always comes for trans people first and you're here talking bs about islamists. most terrorists in Germany are white Germans.
I haven't been clear. Yes, deportations are wrong (even though my heart really wants fascists out of the country), and yes, it's alarming that at least half of the victims are trans/queer.
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I haven't been clear. Yes, deportations are wrong (even though my heart really wants fascists out of the country), and yes, it's alarming that at least half of the victims are trans/queer.
i agree entirely with you. i think the only way for Germans to get rid of fascism is to start tackling their white supremacist culture.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.
And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.
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The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.
And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.
Did you read the same article?
None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
Each of the four protesters faces separate allegations from the authorities, all of which are sourced from police files and tied to pro-Palestine actions in Berlin.
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest — a so-called de-arrest aimed at blocking a fellow protesters’ detention. None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action. (The Free University told The Intercept it had no knowledge of the deportation orders.)
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If they really want to deport foreigners they should start with the old-fashioned antisemites that mingle in those protests.
that is part of their supposed reasoning. the four are accused of chanting antisemitic things, but they dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted.
either way, deporting EU citizens who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
deportations in general if u ask me, are morally dubious.
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i agree entirely with you. i think the only way for Germans to get rid of fascism is to start tackling their white supremacist culture.
That's true for all of Europe. But first, we'll need to get our shit together and fend off agitprop from Russia, China, and, in the future, the US.
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Did you read the same article?
None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
Each of the four protesters faces separate allegations from the authorities, all of which are sourced from police files and tied to pro-Palestine actions in Berlin.
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest — a so-called de-arrest aimed at blocking a fellow protesters’ detention. None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action. (The Free University told The Intercept it had no knowledge of the deportation orders.)
Yes, i have:
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
Some, but not all, of the allegations would correspond to criminal charges in Germany; almost none of them have been brought before a criminal court.
Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime. Three are accused of demonstrating with groups chanting slogans like “From the river to the sea, Palestine Will be Free” — which was outlawed last year in Germany — and “free Palestine.” Authorities also claim all four shouted antisemitic or anti-Israel slogans, though none are specified.
Two are accused of grabbing an officers’ or another protesters’ arm in an attempt to stop arrests at the train station sit-in.
None of this sounds to me like 4 people who simply took part peacefully in a protest.
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The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.
And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.
The article is borderline.
Yes, there is a very apparent spin. There is much emphasis on the facts that "almost none" of the allegations have been brought before a criminal court and no-one of them has been convicted, while only a few lines earlier/later also stating that a conviction is not needed for a deportation under German migration law (but it also isn't a free-for-all for the state and that proportionality has to be observed!).
Hence, should the state decide to deport them, this is something they would do instead of charging them before court.
Some of the allegations are minor. Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime.
Well, calling a member of the German state apparatus a "fascist" is not only - for obvious reasons - a very dumb idea but also something I - and especially them - wouldn't necessarily consider "minor". Also, it is, despite long existing layman's opinions, not a crime to insult an officer, but to insult a person. It is as punishable insulting an officer as anybody else.
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that is part of their supposed reasoning. the four are accused of chanting antisemitic things, but they dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted.
either way, deporting EU citizens who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
deportations in general if u ask me, are morally dubious.
who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
TBF: as the article states, under German law it is not. Whether that is a good idea can surely be debated, but it is legal.
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Yes, i have:
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
Some, but not all, of the allegations would correspond to criminal charges in Germany; almost none of them have been brought before a criminal court.
Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime. Three are accused of demonstrating with groups chanting slogans like “From the river to the sea, Palestine Will be Free” — which was outlawed last year in Germany — and “free Palestine.” Authorities also claim all four shouted antisemitic or anti-Israel slogans, though none are specified.
Two are accused of grabbing an officers’ or another protesters’ arm in an attempt to stop arrests at the train station sit-in.
None of this sounds to me like 4 people who simply took part peacefully in a protest.
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
I highlighted it already. Not sure why you are trying to quote other paragraphs out of context. Here it is again
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty. The essense of your argument condenses to
"Yes but unlike in America, in Germany this is legal!"
And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide, simply because you believe it is legal (which it probably is not according to international human rights laws, which Germany is supposed to follow).
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The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
I highlighted it already. Not sure why you are trying to quote other paragraphs out of context. Here it is again
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty. The essense of your argument condenses to
"Yes but unlike in America, in Germany this is legal!"
And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide, simply because you believe it is legal (which it probably is not according to international human rights laws, which Germany is supposed to follow).
I have inserted the sentence again because you apparently only read the back part and had overlooked the part about the building occupation and damage to property.
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty.
You may be surprised, but** I** don't make the laws.And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide
Then you should read the article again. Because almost 50% of the article consists of explaining what these 4 people are accused of and are - apparently - NOT simply protesting. -
They should take this to ECJ. If I understand what I read correctly, this is clear treaty violation by Germany. Freedom of movement isn't some "oh we observe it, when we like it" thing. It is treaty bound obligation by member states who have ratified treaties. Take this all the way to ECJ and have it bonk bundestag and chancellery over the head with clown hammer of "it is pretty stupid you think treaty obligations arent legally binding mwmber state".
IIRC with EU citizens they have to argue threat to public safety. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this thing stops at some district-level Berlin court, Berlin's courts are way saner than its administration. "Threat to public safety" can be incredibly low-bar or quite high bar, this would be a high bar case. Low bar would be stuff like "you're homeless, go back to your home country and file for welfare there".
Can't really bonk the federation for this it plainly doesn't have the authority to give orders to Berlin's immigration authorities, this is the state of Berlin doing shit, not the federal government.
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The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.
And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.
this is exactly what has been demanded for months
Demanded by whom exactly? And if you say SPD, CxU, and FDP, please look a bit deeper where that demand came from originally.
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this is exactly what has been demanded for months
Demanded by whom exactly? And if you say SPD, CxU, and FDP, please look a bit deeper where that demand came from originally.
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that is part of their supposed reasoning. the four are accused of chanting antisemitic things, but they dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted.
either way, deporting EU citizens who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
deportations in general if u ask me, are morally dubious.
dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted
