Germany Turns to U.S. Playbook: Deportations Target Gaza War Protesters
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Yes, i have:
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
Some, but not all, of the allegations would correspond to criminal charges in Germany; almost none of them have been brought before a criminal court.
Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime. Three are accused of demonstrating with groups chanting slogans like “From the river to the sea, Palestine Will be Free” — which was outlawed last year in Germany — and “free Palestine.” Authorities also claim all four shouted antisemitic or anti-Israel slogans, though none are specified.
Two are accused of grabbing an officers’ or another protesters’ arm in an attempt to stop arrests at the train station sit-in.
None of this sounds to me like 4 people who simply took part peacefully in a protest.
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
I highlighted it already. Not sure why you are trying to quote other paragraphs out of context. Here it is again
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty. The essense of your argument condenses to
"Yes but unlike in America, in Germany this is legal!"
And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide, simply because you believe it is legal (which it probably is not according to international human rights laws, which Germany is supposed to follow).
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The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest
I highlighted it already. Not sure why you are trying to quote other paragraphs out of context. Here it is again
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
Under German migration law, authorities don’t need a criminal conviction to issue a deportation order
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty. The essense of your argument condenses to
"Yes but unlike in America, in Germany this is legal!"
And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide, simply because you believe it is legal (which it probably is not according to international human rights laws, which Germany is supposed to follow).
I have inserted the sentence again because you apparently only read the back part and had overlooked the part about the building occupation and damage to property.
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty.
You may be surprised, but** I** don't make the laws.And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide
Then you should read the article again. Because almost 50% of the article consists of explaining what these 4 people are accused of and are - apparently - NOT simply protesting. -
They should take this to ECJ. If I understand what I read correctly, this is clear treaty violation by Germany. Freedom of movement isn't some "oh we observe it, when we like it" thing. It is treaty bound obligation by member states who have ratified treaties. Take this all the way to ECJ and have it bonk bundestag and chancellery over the head with clown hammer of "it is pretty stupid you think treaty obligations arent legally binding mwmber state".
IIRC with EU citizens they have to argue threat to public safety. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this thing stops at some district-level Berlin court, Berlin's courts are way saner than its administration. "Threat to public safety" can be incredibly low-bar or quite high bar, this would be a high bar case. Low bar would be stuff like "you're homeless, go back to your home country and file for welfare there".
Can't really bonk the federation for this it plainly doesn't have the authority to give orders to Berlin's immigration authorities, this is the state of Berlin doing shit, not the federal government.
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The article is borderline. Because it suggests that the people would ONLY be deported because they protested. But, as it says in the article, they SHOULD be deported because they have committed criminal offences. And criminal offences are not just murders or rapes.
And yes, this is exactly what has been demanded for months: Foreign offenders should be deported more quickly and less ruthlessly. Especially if they come from safe countries. Here, for example, Ireland. The fact that these offences were committed in connection with protests doesn't provide any protection, and I find it extremely sensational to even begin to compare this with what is happening in the USA.
this is exactly what has been demanded for months
Demanded by whom exactly? And if you say SPD, CxU, and FDP, please look a bit deeper where that demand came from originally.
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this is exactly what has been demanded for months
Demanded by whom exactly? And if you say SPD, CxU, and FDP, please look a bit deeper where that demand came from originally.
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that is part of their supposed reasoning. the four are accused of chanting antisemitic things, but they dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted.
either way, deporting EU citizens who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
deportations in general if u ask me, are morally dubious.
dont tell u what has allegedly been chanted
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I have inserted the sentence again because you apparently only read the back part and had overlooked the part about the building occupation and damage to property.
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty.
You may be surprised, but** I** don't make the laws.And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide
Then you should read the article again. Because almost 50% of the article consists of explaining what these 4 people are accused of and are - apparently - NOT simply protesting.None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
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Demanded by whom exactly
Many people from **all **political spectrum, especially after attacks like the one just before the last general election.
The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views. The fact that a socially and financially(!) disastrous populist bullshit "solution" like deportations seeped so far into the German mainstream is at best worrying.
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protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
most antisemites in Germany are pro-Israel, people that go at AfD marches to support Zionism by all means necessary in order to bring about the rapture of Jewish people from the Holy Lands.
protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
Not necessarily, no. Organizers can publicly distance themselves from unwanted people beforehand and during speeches, as well as check people's banners and clothing, and that will generally help quite a bit.
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I don't understand, the rapture of the Jewish people by establishing a Zionist ethno state? I think it's much simpler: The original fascists were antisemites because jews were the scapegoat that could mobilise the masses due to a hatred for jews that has been cultivated for centuries in Europe. The fascist(oid) populists today use arabs/muslims (not that the average AfD supporter knows the difference) and therefore show public support with a regime that already shows little mercy for those. And yeah, true neo nazis, islamists and whoever else hate jews will show up for the protests, and if there really need to be deportations, they should be first.
Zionist ethno state
Jewish people are not an ethnicity. They are defined by religion.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
Going to need another source than intercept to believe this story. They have a history of sensationalization or leaving important details out.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
I can't find a single German outlet reporting on this. I didn't find anything on the lawyers pages about this (which could be coincidence), I can't find anything on Silke Buhlmann (supposedly head of crime prevention at the Migration agency), when I Google the names of the 4 deportees to be nothing turns up any relation to this story, at all.
Supposedly this started in December of 2024I didn't do a super deep dive, but something feels very suspicious here, the intercept is the only source of this story, none of the details can be confirmed except that Alexander Gorski is a immigration lawyer and that Engelhardt mazanke is the head of the Migration agency in Berlin.
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None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
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The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views. The fact that a socially and financially(!) disastrous populist bullshit "solution" like deportations seeped so far into the German mainstream is at best worrying.
The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views.
While I agree with you that especially the AfD is keen on deportations in a scale as big as possible, wouldn't you agree that a system that allows for - please excuse the technical terms - inflow must also have a mechanism of outflow? I.e. deportations in itself are a 'necessary evil'?
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The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views.
While I agree with you that especially the AfD is keen on deportations in a scale as big as possible, wouldn't you agree that a system that allows for - please excuse the technical terms - inflow must also have a mechanism of outflow? I.e. deportations in itself are a 'necessary evil'?
I do think we'd do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall. To which I am not going to be able to produce a definitive answer here. But as a society we should absolutely try to look at the negatives that deportations bring with themselves vs. e.g. prison sentences for actual offenders and better integration for everyone arriving. Instead, our political discourse has moved toward enabling mass deportations and toward making it impossible to fight deportations.
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protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
Not necessarily, no. Organizers can publicly distance themselves from unwanted people beforehand and during speeches, as well as check people's banners and clothing, and that will generally help quite a bit.
which banners and clothing do you want to be censored? if you mean Free Palestine and from the river to the sea, don't even bother as you'd be outing yourself as a zionist
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IIRC with EU citizens they have to argue threat to public safety. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this thing stops at some district-level Berlin court, Berlin's courts are way saner than its administration. "Threat to public safety" can be incredibly low-bar or quite high bar, this would be a high bar case. Low bar would be stuff like "you're homeless, go back to your home country and file for welfare there".
Can't really bonk the federation for this it plainly doesn't have the authority to give orders to Berlin's immigration authorities, this is the state of Berlin doing shit, not the federal government.
Well to EU, the federal government is responsible. If they don't have authority to intervene on behalf of EU-citizens rights being violated, it in itself would be treaty violation. Member states have duty to police and administer the rights. EU doesn't care is state federal or not, the singular member state entity is responsible to EU and it is up to member state to domestically organize so that treaties are followed.
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Zionist ethno state
Jewish people are not an ethnicity. They are defined by religion.
Jews are a classic example of an ethnoreligious group, being Jewish is not solely a question of religion. E.g. many Jews in the US identify as Jewish, but do not believe in Judaism.
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who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
TBF: as the article states, under German law it is not. Whether that is a good idea can surely be debated, but it is legal.
I seem to remember that most of the actions of the Nazis once they got into power were also legal.
Maybe, just maybe, people should have a standard of right and wrong which does not delegate that definition to "legality", especially people in Germany.
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which banners and clothing do you want to be censored? if you mean Free Palestine and from the river to the sea, don't even bother as you'd be outing yourself as a zionist
Primo job jumping to conclusions. I was naming examples of actions. How organizers implement them is not something I am going to have a say in anyway.
I am saying though that interactions like this are probably unnecessary: https://files.catbox.moe/ssct8w.mp4 (If you don't understand German: The "reporter" is an Afd member who is asking a pro-Palestine protester about the historical Nazis and he responds that he likes the number "6 million".)
