Seriously, how would a global democracy work?
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
wrote last edited by [email protected]You seem to have a funny definition of democracy....
In real definitions, police, taxes, anonymity, internet etc. have no place. Democracy means (in simple words) that the people vote for their government. The other aspects can differ.
Look at real existing countries outside of your own. Their systems have huge differences while many of them are democracies.
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
wrote last edited by [email protected]From an objective materialist standpoint, democracies are a tool of the ruling capitalist class to legitimize its own rule and keep their position of class domination while providing an illusion to the working class that they have some sort of power in the matter (they don't, all candidates are pre-selected so all you can choose is essentially the "flavor", who ultimately gets selected usually is determined via campaign money spending and media, once they're in power they gotta preserve the state machinery and capital in place etc).
Nationalism is also a very powerful tool of capital to unite people under single unified volk, deliberately obfuscating the class that might divide said volk and it's constantly used by opportunists and conservative elements.
Given these two statements, I don't think a world government like that can even exist, or if it did it'd implode via separatism from opportunists who want to be the next "great man". US for the longest time was and still is closest to this kind of position though, but they sure as shit are never going to let foreigners vote.
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
Exactly like any other functioning imperfect example of some fundamentally coherent beings of intelligent life.
That said, no one claimed these beings as intelligent or overburdened with an extensive education at hand.
Anyhow’s, yada yada yada.
Charlie Kirk is dead & I am so ok with it. Hell, people die every day all over the planet & classrooms in our country.
I was not close with Charlie & for that I am grateful.
His message was terrible and actually targeted very specific demographics.
Buuuuuut, hey it’s your right no matter how stunted & inbred in concept it may be.
You could probably jerk off during Sunday church service if’s you were clever enough.
It doesn’t imply that one should attempt such a stunt.
Although, fuck it, I’m down to just watch. -
What. The. Fuck.
wrote last edited by [email protected]This isn’t current policy.
So um, just go on grab yourself some decent winky wink. Tomorrow we’ll see what & where we are.
I will heed this same message also.
My intake of information for the day has been too much to mentally unpack & digest as well. -
It would be like EU, but worldwide.
As for internet voting, nah, you can't preserve anonymity while ensuring election integrity
Yeah, this is simply the correct answer. Everything else I've read here ranges from overcomplicated to completely insane.
Why are people so obsessed with digital/internet voting?
Just use normal ballots, with pen and paper, and have a little patience while it gets collected, mailed and counted!
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This sounds horrible, sorry.
We need borders because people are different with different and incompatible values. Good fences make good neighbours isn’t just a pithy saying, it’s a strong statement about the need for people to respect each other’s boundaries.
Look at the state of the US right now. It’s a horrific clash of incompatible ideologies. It would be much better for everyone involved if the US split up and people on both sides of that divide went their separate ways.
I’m at a point right now where I’m beginning to think the internet was a mistake that has undone so much progress in peace and civility. The internet accelerates divisions and allows extreme ideologies to grow and fester. It’s awful.
I’m at a point right now where I’m beginning to think the internet was a mistake that has undone so much progress in peace and civility.
Technology is not inherently evil, its how its being used.
For Example: Technology allows my parents to talk to our relatives across the world, where as letters would've taken months to get across the ocean. Its not even just words, if you have a good camera, you can even see each other in HD.
Internet allowed the spread of the video that documented George Floyd's Murder. The internet has solved cold cases of crimes. The internet brought down Nepal's corrupt government. The internet provided safe spaces for LGBT+ people. The internet provided discussion forums for many TV shows, especially niche ones where you have no one geographically close to you to discuss, and niche video games too. There are a lot of entertaining and educational youtube channels.
Talking to people across borders allow you to develop a more global perspective, instead of viewing the world solely from your small city/town.
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
You need social proximity for democracy to work, because that's how you have conversations about issues. We would need a shared global culture and factors that mean people at every level of society have friends distributed around the world. The specific rules and bureaucratic procedure are less important, the main thing is people in different places need to become more connected to each other.
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
A single government to preside over the whole world? It just can’t work, ever. How is a president in India supposed to govern Iraq?
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We've never really had direct democracy at scale becauseit was physically impossible.
But now we have the technology to implement it.
We have the technology to implement it. It's extremely questionable as to whether we have the society to practice it.
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From an objective materialist standpoint, democracies are a tool of the ruling capitalist class to legitimize its own rule and keep their position of class domination while providing an illusion to the working class that they have some sort of power in the matter (they don't, all candidates are pre-selected so all you can choose is essentially the "flavor", who ultimately gets selected usually is determined via campaign money spending and media, once they're in power they gotta preserve the state machinery and capital in place etc).
Nationalism is also a very powerful tool of capital to unite people under single unified volk, deliberately obfuscating the class that might divide said volk and it's constantly used by opportunists and conservative elements.
Given these two statements, I don't think a world government like that can even exist, or if it did it'd implode via separatism from opportunists who want to be the next "great man". US for the longest time was and still is closest to this kind of position though, but they sure as shit are never going to let foreigners vote.
Democracy just means people get to choose who leads them. You may be talking about specific societies where there's the illusion of democracy, but that's not a problem with democracy, it's a problem with capitalism.
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This sounds horrible, sorry.
We need borders because people are different with different and incompatible values. Good fences make good neighbours isn’t just a pithy saying, it’s a strong statement about the need for people to respect each other’s boundaries.
Look at the state of the US right now. It’s a horrific clash of incompatible ideologies. It would be much better for everyone involved if the US split up and people on both sides of that divide went their separate ways.
I’m at a point right now where I’m beginning to think the internet was a mistake that has undone so much progress in peace and civility. The internet accelerates divisions and allows extreme ideologies to grow and fester. It’s awful.
So we should just let people from harmful cultures abuse children or women?
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Democracy just means people get to choose who leads them. You may be talking about specific societies where there's the illusion of democracy, but that's not a problem with democracy, it's a problem with capitalism.
True, but the post isn't really talking about democracies in general but liberal democracies (the specific societies kind you mention), stretched to a worldwide scale. Probably should have clarified that.
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So we should just let people from harmful cultures abuse children or women?
Because it worked out so fantastically well when the US invaded Afghanistan, right?
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Because it worked out so fantastically well when the US invaded Afghanistan, right?
So we shouldn't even try?
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So we shouldn't even try?
To play world police? Hell no.
Afghanistan was a peaceful country until Soviet influence led to a communist coup that overthrew the government in 1978. Ever since then Afghanistan has had near-endless conflict as different factions (internal and external) have wrestled for control. The Taliban itself, first known as the Mujahideen, was armed and supported by Ronald Reagan’s government.
It’s a textbook example of outsiders ruining a country’s natural course of history and development. You can find the same story in Iran, much of Central and South America, and Africa. Foreign influence creates more conflict and suffering than it prevents.
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This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's a huge problem, but I don't really see a lot of discussion about it. We have the technological means now for every single person on the planet to communicate directly with every single other person, in near-real time. The only real barrier to it is logistical (and is mostly impeded by resource hoarding). That's amazing. And the recent election in Nepal via Discord has me thinking again about how the internet could form the basis for a real, democratic, world government. There are a ton of problems that would need to be addressed, off the top of my head:
- not everyone has internet access
- not everyone that has access has unfettered access
- It's hard to preserve anonymity and have fair elections
- it's hard to verify elections haven't been tampered with
- what happens when violent crimes are committed?
- how do taxes work in this system?
- how do armed forces work in this system?
I don't think any of these problems are necessarily unsolvable, but I don't know how. So, how would we get from where we are to where we want to be? How do we even define what the end state should look like?
Federal republic or swiz model (which is a federation). Just yk bigger.
Decentralised. Good example of how that would be is germany. There would be the top level: global parliamentthen regional/continental determined by cultural / geographic similaritys so example a european council, indian, north american (excluding mexico), latin american, central african, arabic, west african and so on
Below that basicly like country borders today down to sub regional administration and then munincipalities/citys
Its not one person as the "head" but always a council.
The problems you listed arent problems.
One can either vote in paper or online. Lots of examples there that it works, doesnt get tampered with and the annonymity is also perserved.Crimes are on the country/munincipalities levels and should be handled there
Tax is global as are the armed forces
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Yeah, this is simply the correct answer. Everything else I've read here ranges from overcomplicated to completely insane.
Why are people so obsessed with digital/internet voting?
Just use normal ballots, with pen and paper, and have a little patience while it gets collected, mailed and counted!
Or an EVM
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From an objective materialist standpoint, democracies are a tool of the ruling capitalist class to legitimize its own rule and keep their position of class domination while providing an illusion to the working class that they have some sort of power in the matter (they don't, all candidates are pre-selected so all you can choose is essentially the "flavor", who ultimately gets selected usually is determined via campaign money spending and media, once they're in power they gotta preserve the state machinery and capital in place etc).
Nationalism is also a very powerful tool of capital to unite people under single unified volk, deliberately obfuscating the class that might divide said volk and it's constantly used by opportunists and conservative elements.
Given these two statements, I don't think a world government like that can even exist, or if it did it'd implode via separatism from opportunists who want to be the next "great man". US for the longest time was and still is closest to this kind of position though, but they sure as shit are never going to let foreigners vote.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Friend. Oh boy quite the dusy you wrote there.....democracy isnt an illusion. Maybe where you are it is persumibly usa but what do i know
Seeing you are on what is typicly described as "left political spectrum" then you should know that every true "for the people" idea is base set on democracy. Socialism, anarchism, syndiclism aso.
The problem democracy has isnt democracy, which is litterly just people choosing who governce them, it is that democracy and capitalism inherently arent compatible with each other. For democracy to be 100% to its ideals everyone should be equal in all things. But that isnt possible in capitalism because threw wealth you can buy yourself influence, and a stage. So it is easier for wealthy to get a crowd. But that doesnt mean only wealthy people get elected. The many left partys in europe for example are quite the good example to disprove this.
Another problem is also the lack of education in many people which results in ignorance which results in fear and that into hate.
And in case you are in the US: big suprise the US' Freedom always came with astrixes and the "democracy" was rigged from the start. If that shocked you...you should reeally look outside and read in depth about your nations history and compare its "democratic" system to others in history, florence, venice, ditmarschen, hanseatic citys, modern democracys. Yes even the merchant democrasies and ancient democracys were more democratic than the US ever lol
To quote Kennedy "Democracy may not be the best system, but we have never needed to build walls to keep our people from leaving"
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It would be like EU, but worldwide.
As for internet voting, nah, you can't preserve anonymity while ensuring election integrity
Or atleast what VOLT and the EUROPEAN FEDERALISTS want the EU to reform into
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This isn’t current policy.
So um, just go on grab yourself some decent winky wink. Tomorrow we’ll see what & where we are.
I will heed this same message also.
My intake of information for the day has been too much to mentally unpack & digest as well.Um, what?
