Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo

agnos.is Forums

  1. Home
  2. Technology
  3. GitHub - LadybirdBrowser/ladybird: Truly independent web browser

GitHub - LadybirdBrowser/ladybird: Truly independent web browser

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Technology
195 Posts 93 Posters 1.9k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • S [email protected]

    I would've rejected the PR too, but not for violation of that rule, but because one-line changes that merely fix a comment waste everyone's time reviewing it, and are often just to build someone's resume. I've even seen some that remove trailing whitespace.

    If you want to fix it alongside other changes, go for it (and the reviewer said as much on the PR). But if you're only interested in sending in drive-by commits to build a resume or something and aren't actually interested in helping, then it should be rejected as noise.

    If there's a broader pattern of this, maybe that's cause for concern. But if it's literally just this instance, I could see the dev being annoyed at drive-by PRs.

    gon@lemm.eeG This user is from outside of this forum
    gon@lemm.eeG This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #61

    I would’ve rejected the PR too, but not for violation of that rule, but because one-line changes that merely fix a comment waste everyone’s time reviewing it, and are often just to build someone’s resume.

    That's exactly what I was talking about. You're taking what they said reasonably, because you're probably a reasonable person! However, look at what they're actually saying. The issue wasn't framed as being a "drive-by," though later that's what they claimed. It was about ideology. It was about politics. They didn't pull up rules about one-line changes to justify not accepting them, they pulled up rules about talking politics.

    The problem wasn't that it was a meaningless PR, the problem was that it was a meaningful PR that they disagreed with.

    And, quite frankly, disagreeing with that does make you an asshole, at the very least, and a transphobic misogynist, at worst. There were at least a few PRs open about similar issues, too.

    Look, I'm not calling him a transphobe or a misogynist; I'm just saying this was an asshole thing to do, and it was done in an asshole way, and that allowing this sort of thing to exist, especially in FOSS, is not good. That's all.

    Check this out: https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird

    S 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • S [email protected]

      "comments must be accurate," is not a rule you should bend. Bending it even a little leads to last programming and shit code.

      S This user is from outside of this forum
      S This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #62

      True, but that only applies if it's misleading. For example:

      // pythagoran theorem 
      distance = abs(p2.x - p1.x) + abs(p2.y - p1.y); 
      

      Fixing that makes sense because it's wrong and misleading (it's actually Manhattan distance), and a quick glace is insufficient to tell the difference.

      But fixing a typo or something that wouldn't be confusing is just noise and should only be fixed with other changes. For example, I intentionally misspelled Pythagorean in my comment above, fixing that to be the right spelling would be a useless change, even if the distance formula used the hypotenuse. It wouldn't be an unreasonable policy to reject PRs that only fix spelling or similar to reduce noise for the maintainers.

      S 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #63

        Oh shit. I despise Discord, why not a normal forum?!

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • P [email protected]

          There is nothing political about acknowledging peoples' existence.

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #64

          Existence? Because somebody used a wrong pronoun?

          P P E 3 Replies Last reply
          0
          • P [email protected]

            DDG search is garbage, I'm sorry... Whenever I switch to a browser that defaults to it, I'm reminded why I always switch it back to Google (unfortunately). Even Yandex is better, and that's prob Russian spyware.

            breadguy@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
            breadguy@fedia.ioB This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #65

            there's startpage which is a Google wrapper if you're interested

            P 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • S [email protected]

              Existence? Because somebody used a wrong pronoun?

              P This user is from outside of this forum
              P This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #66

              Language is extremely powerful.

              S 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • E [email protected]

                Transphobic main dev ruined the project for me

                M This user is from outside of this forum
                M This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #67

                Again this shit. This have been debunked many times, yet people still write this nonsense.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zoneC [email protected]

                  ugh transphobia rots people's brains

                  it's not too hard to just be a decent person ppl

                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                  M This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #68

                  Sure, but there's no transphobia here. Stop spreading nonsense.

                  N 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • S [email protected]

                    Here are two on Linux:

                    • GNOME Web (was called Epiphany)
                    • Konquerer - KDE

                    Those are the two biggest desktops on Linux. In fact, when I run Tauri (like Electron, but uses your system webview instead of bundling it), it uses GNOME Web on my system.

                    krik@lemmy.dbzer0.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                    krik@lemmy.dbzer0.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #69

                    They still exist? I was under the impression that they are abandoned.

                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • gon@lemm.eeG [email protected]

                      I would’ve rejected the PR too, but not for violation of that rule, but because one-line changes that merely fix a comment waste everyone’s time reviewing it, and are often just to build someone’s resume.

                      That's exactly what I was talking about. You're taking what they said reasonably, because you're probably a reasonable person! However, look at what they're actually saying. The issue wasn't framed as being a "drive-by," though later that's what they claimed. It was about ideology. It was about politics. They didn't pull up rules about one-line changes to justify not accepting them, they pulled up rules about talking politics.

                      The problem wasn't that it was a meaningless PR, the problem was that it was a meaningful PR that they disagreed with.

                      And, quite frankly, disagreeing with that does make you an asshole, at the very least, and a transphobic misogynist, at worst. There were at least a few PRs open about similar issues, too.

                      Look, I'm not calling him a transphobe or a misogynist; I'm just saying this was an asshole thing to do, and it was done in an asshole way, and that allowing this sort of thing to exist, especially in FOSS, is not good. That's all.

                      Check this out: https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird

                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #70

                      The issue wasn’t framed as being a “drive-by,” though later that’s what they claimed. It was about ideology.

                      But that's the problem, it's both a drive-by, useless change and a politically motivated one. If you show up to a project and submit a change that violates multiple rules, it's dealer's choice which one to pick.

                      With asynchronous discussions like this, it's impossible to know their motivations, so it's helpful to assume the best instead of the worst.

                      Check this out: https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird

                      From that:

                      In order to not look like I'm just repeating myself over and over, here is another pull request where a user fixed the specifically gendered language, and was denied

                      Here's the PR in question. It was merged, probably because it didn't just change "he" to "they" in one spot (but did just that in a few spots), but actually fixed confusing language.

                      And then after it was merged, there were tons of irrelevant comments about the policy and other PRs.

                      The one I pulled here included changes from the other rejected PRs. Maybe this was by a different reviewer, idk. That said, it's still a little iffy since it's just fixing grammar and especially pronouns that aren't really relevant to the code it's commenting.

                      I probably would've accepted that last one because it fixes stuff in a lot of places rather than one (quantity has a quality of its own), and accepting it will hopefully stop PR spam.

                      Look, I’m not calling him a transphobe or a misogynist

                      He may be. Idk.

                      My criticisms here go to everyone involved:

                      • reviewer should've rejected the PRs because they're noisy, not because they're "political"
                      • submitter shouldn't just submit a 1-line grammar fix in a comment
                      • github users shouldn't brigade, discussion should be technical
                      • blog author should be more accurate (see above)

                      It's stupid drama all around.

                      Fixing comments is fine. If you're going to only fix comments, at least fix a bunch of them at once, and ideally more than just a pronoun or grammar mistake here and there. English isn't everyone's first language, so assume the best and don't waste everyone's time with useless changes.

                      gon@lemm.eeG 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • breadguy@fedia.ioB [email protected]

                        there's startpage which is a Google wrapper if you're interested

                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                        P This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #71

                        Actually just tried this for the first time yesterday after switching to librewolf. Have only used it once, but already seems better than DDG.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • S [email protected]

                          Lunduke used to be somewhat interesting, and I enjoyed his "Linux sucks" series, but he really has doubled down on political nonsense.

                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                          M This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #72

                          Definitely. Even other series were interesting. I especially like his perspective of how much bloated software currently is. But I ultimately unsubscribed him, because the most videos were alt-right bullshit, without providing even credible sources on the biggest claims. Definitely NOT give him any traffic anymore, he doesn't deserve it.

                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • krik@lemmy.dbzer0.comK [email protected]

                            They still exist? I was under the impression that they are abandoned.

                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            S This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #73

                            They absolutely do. A lot of distros package Firefox or Chromium or something as the default, but those browsers are default for their respective DEs.

                            H 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M [email protected]

                              Definitely. Even other series were interesting. I especially like his perspective of how much bloated software currently is. But I ultimately unsubscribed him, because the most videos were alt-right bullshit, without providing even credible sources on the biggest claims. Definitely NOT give him any traffic anymore, he doesn't deserve it.

                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #74

                              Agreed. The signal to noise ratio really suffers now.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • P [email protected]

                                DDG search is garbage, I'm sorry... Whenever I switch to a browser that defaults to it, I'm reminded why I always switch it back to Google (unfortunately). Even Yandex is better, and that's prob Russian spyware.

                                asudox@lemmy.asudox.devA This user is from outside of this forum
                                asudox@lemmy.asudox.devA This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #75

                                Try out SearXNG.

                                P 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • e8d79@discuss.tchncs.deE [email protected]

                                  Stay vigilant. Content about "Political correctness gone mad!" is step one of the alt-right pipeline.

                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #76

                                  It can also be the correct arrestment. Context is everything.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • E [email protected]

                                    Transphobic main dev ruined the project for me

                                    G This user is from outside of this forum
                                    G This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #77

                                    Totally excessive in view of the facts.

                                    There are so few alternative browsers and the collapse of the privacy is so global. That seems to me a minor point in relation to the goal.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • R [email protected]

                                      Is there any source for this?

                                      carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zoneC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zoneC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #78

                                      i know there was a thing at the beginning of the project where they wrote a lot of the documentation with masculine pronouns (ie assuming the reader was male), and when they were asked to change that for gender neutral pronouns, they said no because "they don’t want politics in their project"

                                      beyond that however, idk if they eventually changed that or if they did other stuff

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • S [email protected]

                                        The issue wasn’t framed as being a “drive-by,” though later that’s what they claimed. It was about ideology.

                                        But that's the problem, it's both a drive-by, useless change and a politically motivated one. If you show up to a project and submit a change that violates multiple rules, it's dealer's choice which one to pick.

                                        With asynchronous discussions like this, it's impossible to know their motivations, so it's helpful to assume the best instead of the worst.

                                        Check this out: https://mkultra.monster/tech/2024/07/03/serenityos-and-ladybird

                                        From that:

                                        In order to not look like I'm just repeating myself over and over, here is another pull request where a user fixed the specifically gendered language, and was denied

                                        Here's the PR in question. It was merged, probably because it didn't just change "he" to "they" in one spot (but did just that in a few spots), but actually fixed confusing language.

                                        And then after it was merged, there were tons of irrelevant comments about the policy and other PRs.

                                        The one I pulled here included changes from the other rejected PRs. Maybe this was by a different reviewer, idk. That said, it's still a little iffy since it's just fixing grammar and especially pronouns that aren't really relevant to the code it's commenting.

                                        I probably would've accepted that last one because it fixes stuff in a lot of places rather than one (quantity has a quality of its own), and accepting it will hopefully stop PR spam.

                                        Look, I’m not calling him a transphobe or a misogynist

                                        He may be. Idk.

                                        My criticisms here go to everyone involved:

                                        • reviewer should've rejected the PRs because they're noisy, not because they're "political"
                                        • submitter shouldn't just submit a 1-line grammar fix in a comment
                                        • github users shouldn't brigade, discussion should be technical
                                        • blog author should be more accurate (see above)

                                        It's stupid drama all around.

                                        Fixing comments is fine. If you're going to only fix comments, at least fix a bunch of them at once, and ideally more than just a pronoun or grammar mistake here and there. English isn't everyone's first language, so assume the best and don't waste everyone's time with useless changes.

                                        gon@lemm.eeG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        gon@lemm.eeG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #79

                                        Sigh, you do have a point.

                                        Maybe this was by a different reviewer, idk.

                                        It was. Some other member of SerenityOS, not the person behind Ladybird (awesomekling).

                                        blog author should be more accurate (see above)

                                        That's fair. I'll say though, the blog post is dated from 1 day after the PR was actually merged. It's not unreasonable to think that, when they wrote it, it really hadn't been merged and they only saw the initial denial citing the policy.

                                        He may be. Idk.

                                        Yeah, I was just trying to say that that wasn't the point of my rant. I get it I get it.

                                        S 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M [email protected]
                                          This post did not contain any content.
                                          ambitiousslab@lemmy.mlA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ambitiousslab@lemmy.mlA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #80

                                          I donate to Ladybird and Servo, and I hope they succeed. We need serious competition and a check on Mozilla (not to mention Chrome and Safari).

                                          That said, I'm sad that neither Ladybird or Servo are licensed under strong copyleft licenses. We need user-oriented browsers now more than ever, and strong copyleft enables that. I worry that, even if these engines are successful, they will be co-opted by proprietary browsers and eventually superseded by them.

                                          This happened before - both Chrome and Safari ultimately derive from KHTML, Konqueror's browser engine. If KHTML had been licnesed under the GPL instead of the LGPL, Chrome and Safari may have been free software today (or at the very least, it would have been much more difficult for Apple and Google to get started).

                                          That said, I wish Ladybird the best. There donation = no influence policy is excellent, and I really, really hope they can stick to it in the long term.

                                          S zangoose@lemmy.worldZ M B P 5 Replies Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups