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  3. systemd has been a complete, utter, unmitigated success

systemd has been a complete, utter, unmitigated success

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  • paequ2@lemmy.todayP [email protected]

    Uh, sorry. I don't follow. Is there a way to tell all programs to write to one file in Guix?

    M This user is from outside of this forum
    M This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by
    #14

    Yea, symlink all the files to the same master log file. ... /s

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • C [email protected]

      predictable and consistent.

      Or none of those.

      Oh. My NIC didn't 'start' because systemd and network manager are fighting again? Neet.

      ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
      ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by [email protected]
      #15

      I don't know why they are downvoting you, it's true. I'm dealing with this kind of problem currently.. sometimes the boot lasts forever to the point that I have to use AltGr+SysRq commands to force kill everything.. other times it simply boots as normal. It's not consistent at all.

      At least before with the old init it was relatively simple to dig into the scripts and make changes to them.. I feel now with systemd it's a lot more opaque and harder to deal with. I wouldn't even know how to approach the problem, systemd-analyze blame does not help, since the times I actually get to boot look normal. But I do believe it must have to do with the mountpoints because often they are what takes the longest.
      Any advice on what should I do would be welcome.

      Also, I have a separate Bazzite install in my living room TV, and while that one does not get locked, sometimes NetworkManager simply is not running after boot... I got fed up to the point that I wrote a workaround by creating a rc.local script to have it run, so I can have it available reliably when the system starts (that fixed it.. though some cifs mountpoints often do not get mounted.. so I'm considering adding the mount command to the same rc.local script too....).

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      • C [email protected]

        I always assumed that Poettering is an arse to people because of the hate he got for systemd. I imagine it's hard to see the best in people when there's a crowd of haters everywhere you go. Though I have no idea what he was like beforehand.

        ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
        ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by [email protected]
        #16

        I feel that generally, when the issue is that the person is an arse, then the complaints are often not about the software. You might see people campaigning to boicot the software out of spite, but they won't give you a technical reason, other than them not wanting the creator to get any credit for it.

        When the complaints are about discrepancies in the way the software is designed (like it was with systemd), there's no reason to expect the person to be an arse. Though him not being an arse does not make the criticism about his software invalid... in the same way as him being an arse would not have made the software technically worthless. Don't fall for the ad-hominem.

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        • ikidd@lemmy.worldI [email protected]
          This post did not contain any content.
          A This user is from outside of this forum
          A This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote last edited by
          #17

          I'd say the main bad part of systemd is how it's used and now expected everywhere.

          If you search for some Linux guides or install something complicated or whatnot, they always expect you to have systemd. Otherwise, you're on your own figuring how things work on your system.

          This shouldn't really happen. Otherwise, yes, it's great, it integrates neatly, and is least pain to use.

          whaleross@lemmy.worldW strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.showS 2 Replies Last reply
          8
          • extremedullard@lemmy.sdf.orgE [email protected]

            poettering is an absolute good guy here

            Agreed. But he's also an abrasive know-it-all. A modicum of social skills and respect goes a long way towards making others accept your pet projects.

            pulesaudio protocol is used within pipewire and it works just fine.

            I wasn't talking about the protocol, I was talking about the implementation: PulseAudio is a crashy, unstable POS. I can't count the number of hours this turd made me waste, until PipeWire came along.

            L This user is from outside of this forum
            L This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #18

            Agreed. But he’s also an abrasive know-it-all. A modicum of social skills and respect goes a long way towards making others accept your pet projects.

            This isn't what I get when reading bug reports he interacts in. Yeah, sometimes he asks if something can't be done another way – but he seems also very open to new ideas. I rather think that this opinion of him is very selective, there are cases where he comes off as smug, but I never got the impression this is the majority of cases.

            I wasn’t talking about the protocol, I was talking about the implementation: PulseAudio is a crashy, unstable POS. I can’t count the number of hours this turd made me waste, until PipeWire came along.

            PipeWire for audio couldn't exist nowadays without PulseAudio though, in fact it was originally created as "PulseAudio for Video"; Pulse exposed a lot of bugs in the lower levels of the Linux audio stack. And I do agree that PipeWire is better than PulseAudio. But it's important to see it in the context of the time it was created in, and Linux audio back then was certainly different. OSS was actually something a significant amount of people used…

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            • paequ2@lemmy.todayP [email protected]

              I'm in Guix Linux land right now and I miss journald. I'm supposed to wade through all the log files in /var/log myself??

              M This user is from outside of this forum
              M This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #19

              Try https://lnav.org/

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              • M [email protected]

                I still have no idea how to find the right record to read but at least I can run a journalctl --follow till my crash happens

                ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
                ferk@lemmy.mlF This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by [email protected]
                #20

                If that approach is enough then tail -f /var/log/* could work too with multiple files, it'll "follow" all the files and display only new lines.

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                • ikidd@lemmy.worldI [email protected]
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                  alexcleac@szmer.infoA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alexcleac@szmer.infoA This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #21

                  I like systemd overall. The ease of use, uniform interface and nice documentation is awesome.

                  Though each time I try to run it on outdated hardware (say, my Thinkpad X100e, which is, well, a life choice xD) — it makes whole system much slower. IMO, openrc is not as bad, and in some ways it gives some capabiilties of systemd these days.

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                  • A [email protected]

                    I'd say the main bad part of systemd is how it's used and now expected everywhere.

                    If you search for some Linux guides or install something complicated or whatnot, they always expect you to have systemd. Otherwise, you're on your own figuring how things work on your system.

                    This shouldn't really happen. Otherwise, yes, it's great, it integrates neatly, and is least pain to use.

                    whaleross@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                    whaleross@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #22

                    There is no authority delegating responsibilities of writing tutorials for Linux. It is the responsibility of nobody and everybody. If you can't find one for your problem, write it yourself when you have figured it out.

                    A 1 Reply Last reply
                    3
                    • projectmoonP Offline
                      projectmoonP Offline
                      projectmoon
                      wrote last edited by
                      #23

                      I'm over here still using OpenRC. Mostly because I want to. Some servers I run have systemd on them. systemd is generally nice. OpenRC has finally gained the ability to run user services, which is also very nice.

                      sxan@midwest.socialS 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • ikidd@lemmy.worldI [email protected]
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #24

                        I totally agree.

                        I hate to admit I didn't want anything to do with systemd because it took me forever to get somewhat familiar with some other mainstream init systems.

                        Then, I didn't care for a while until I developed software that had to keep running using some sort of init system. The obvious choice was whatever the default I had (systemd) and I fell in love with the convenience of systemd (templates, timers, ..). I started shipping sample systemd with the things I provide & yes, you are on your own if you use something else.

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                        • whaleross@lemmy.worldW [email protected]

                          There is no authority delegating responsibilities of writing tutorials for Linux. It is the responsibility of nobody and everybody. If you can't find one for your problem, write it yourself when you have figured it out.

                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          A This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by [email protected]
                          #25

                          Sure, but I can't single-handedly create an entire knowledge base on doing everything with X, so it's a real and big limitation.

                          whaleross@lemmy.worldW 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • A [email protected]

                            I'd say the main bad part of systemd is how it's used and now expected everywhere.

                            If you search for some Linux guides or install something complicated or whatnot, they always expect you to have systemd. Otherwise, you're on your own figuring how things work on your system.

                            This shouldn't really happen. Otherwise, yes, it's great, it integrates neatly, and is least pain to use.

                            strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.showS This user is from outside of this forum
                            strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.showS This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote last edited by
                            #26

                            In my opnion, systemd is like core-utils at this point.

                            It's so integrated into most things and the default so many places, that most guides assume you have it.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • A [email protected]

                              Sure, but I can't single-handedly create an entire knowledge base on doing everything with X, so it's a real and big limitation.

                              whaleross@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                              whaleross@lemmy.worldW This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by [email protected]
                              #27

                              If you think so and that this is important, maybe you could be the one that makes it happen. Start a project and gather like-minded people. That is how Linux, FOSS and community driven efforts operate. It's useless to complain that nobody else makes the effort if you have the capabilities but can't be arsed making an attempt yourself.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • projectmoonP projectmoon

                                I'm over here still using OpenRC. Mostly because I want to. Some servers I run have systemd on them. systemd is generally nice. OpenRC has finally gained the ability to run user services, which is also very nice.

                                sxan@midwest.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                                sxan@midwest.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote last edited by
                                #28

                                dinit also has the ability to run user services, FWIW.

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