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  3. Germany could ban far-Right politicians from running for office

Germany could ban far-Right politicians from running for office

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  • D [email protected]

    Then they'll ban far left politicians from running.

    Then they'll ban anyone they don't like.

    And eventually, they'll ban everyone who isn't them.

    Right wing lunatics are repulsive in almost every sense, but this isn't the way you beat them. When you put the machinery in place to do something like this, it will inevitably be abused in the opposite direction in future.

    G This user is from outside of this forum
    G This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #101

    It's pretty hypocritical. Banning people from running in elections is about as far right as you can get.

    The left-right divide is not a straight line, it's a full circle.

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    • R [email protected]

      The big issue with any form of attempted suppression will not suddenly sway their voters. It would be much smarter to not give people a reason to fall for populists.

      But that would be too easy, I guess.

      G This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #102

      It's like banning marijuana and then expecting people to just not do it.

      B 1 Reply Last reply
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      • M [email protected]

        OK Adolf.

        G This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #103

        Free speech is only allowed if you agree with it, huh?

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        • M [email protected]

          Yes. Would you allow a company to sell actual poison that is marketed as a health food? What if a study showed 50.1% of all people believed it was not actually poisonous because of a successful marketing campaign by the company? What if innocent babies and children were ingesting this poison because their parents believed it was safe?

          If you agree with banning a child killing poison but not with banning a far right party, please explain how it's fundamentally any different.

          G This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote on last edited by
          #104

          I would allow that company to sell poison.

          But I would not allow them to market it as health food.

          If a party campaigns on far right ideals, and get elected, then fair enough, that's democracy. Sometimes you have to admit that your views are not wanted.

          However, if a far right party campaigns on truth and love and free kittens for everyone, then instead is shown to be liars and haters and give out free guns, then I would have an issue.

          M 1 Reply Last reply
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          • phneutral@feddit.orgP [email protected]

            This is a paradox well described by Popper. The gist is: You can not be tolerant towards the intolerant.

            O This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #105

            I never considered it all that much of a paradox. If anything, it's a linguistic contradiction. Isn't it a question of whether we should tolerate someone in/directly causing/wishing harm onto others. It also doesn't matter whether they understand it themselves.

            There is a lot of aspects that are considered "political", that is arguably just "harm onto A that benefits B". I think it is right to call it out. Universal health care, education, affordable housing, etc. Take of the capitalistic monocle, and certain "rights" and "wrongs" are painfully obvious.

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            • G [email protected]

              It's like banning marijuana and then expecting people to just not do it.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #106

              While restricting other pain medication.

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              • eee@lemmy.dbzer0.comE [email protected]

                Why would it suppress left politicians? It's not like any of them have multiple extremism convictions, that's usually rightwing politicians.

                B This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #107

                Being against genocide in Gaza is "extremist" in Germany.

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                • I [email protected]

                  Its amazing how things work, the defendors of the democracy are asking to ban a political party. Do this exercise with me, imagine a country where the majority of people want a "far-right" party to rule them. It can be for a lot of reasons, security, education, social paradox, conservative economic reasons, emigration... whatever, you choose, what would you do? Deny the will of an entire country or let them freely choose what they want? Im not judging im just curious, i know my answer but i want to ear yours

                  F This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #108

                  Protecting minorities from the terror of the majority and protecting democracy for future generations that cannot vote yet are essential parts of democracy.

                  To answer your question:

                  Deny the will of the majority of the people

                  yes, because what you describe is not democracy, it's mob rule

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                  • R [email protected]

                    The big issue with any form of attempted suppression will not suddenly sway their voters. It would be much smarter to not give people a reason to fall for populists.

                    But that would be too easy, I guess.

                    I This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #109

                    Nope, if the AfD gets banned, the entire structure and funding crumbles. It will take decades to build up this kind of Nazi momentum.

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zoneO [email protected]

                      Wake us up when it's "have".

                      ? Offline
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #110

                      A similar system has been there to prevent Nazism rise. Sadly, AfD and other right wing parties found a loophole a decade ago.

                      oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zoneO F 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • F [email protected]

                        Protecting minorities from the terror of the majority and protecting democracy for future generations that cannot vote yet are essential parts of democracy.

                        To answer your question:

                        Deny the will of the majority of the people

                        yes, because what you describe is not democracy, it's mob rule

                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #111

                        yes, because what you describe is not democracy, it’s mob rule

                        First part i agree with you but this one makes no sense to me, you are telling me that its only democracy when people align with your views, if they dont think the way you do "is not democracy". I dont agree with this one tbh.

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                        • phneutral@feddit.orgP [email protected]

                          This is a paradox well described by Popper. The gist is: You can not be tolerant towards the intolerant.

                          I This user is from outside of this forum
                          I This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #112

                          You can not be tolerant towards the intolerant.

                          Yep, The paradox of Tolerance. Its way more deep that we think it is

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                          • I [email protected]

                            Nope, if the AfD gets banned, the entire structure and funding crumbles. It will take decades to build up this kind of Nazi momentum.

                            R This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #113

                            First of all, no, that's wrong. The AfD got to where they are in 12 years, and that was from 0 - do you really think it would take them another 10 years to get to the point where they are now?

                            Second of all, it STILL would not convince the people that the AfD is wrong and they would just fall for the next right-wing populist party. So even if it would work, it would only be a temporary solution to a major issue.

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                            • R [email protected]

                              First of all, no, that's wrong. The AfD got to where they are in 12 years, and that was from 0 - do you really think it would take them another 10 years to get to the point where they are now?

                              Second of all, it STILL would not convince the people that the AfD is wrong and they would just fall for the next right-wing populist party. So even if it would work, it would only be a temporary solution to a major issue.

                              ? Offline
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #114

                              The issue being Germany. Country who commited genocide should lose their right to exist. Totale Rückverdummung now

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                              • ? Guest

                                A similar system has been there to prevent Nazism rise. Sadly, AfD and other right wing parties found a loophole a decade ago.

                                oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zoneO This user is from outside of this forum
                                oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zoneO This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #115

                                Yeah, sadly there is only one way to defeat Nazis and it's not easy or liked by most.

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                                • G [email protected]

                                  I would allow that company to sell poison.

                                  But I would not allow them to market it as health food.

                                  If a party campaigns on far right ideals, and get elected, then fair enough, that's democracy. Sometimes you have to admit that your views are not wanted.

                                  However, if a far right party campaigns on truth and love and free kittens for everyone, then instead is shown to be liars and haters and give out free guns, then I would have an issue.

                                  M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #116

                                  "I would have an issue" that IS what's happening. The Republican parties' modus operandi IS constantly lying, much much more than the Democrat party. So you have an issue with them correct?

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                                  • R [email protected]

                                    First of all, no, that's wrong. The AfD got to where they are in 12 years, and that was from 0 - do you really think it would take them another 10 years to get to the point where they are now?

                                    Second of all, it STILL would not convince the people that the AfD is wrong and they would just fall for the next right-wing populist party. So even if it would work, it would only be a temporary solution to a major issue.

                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #117

                                    First of all, no. They won't exist and can't establish anything similar if the party gets forbidden. They won't be able to do shit.

                                    Second of all, there is no next right wing populist party like that.

                                    That's the whole reason to ban a party.

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                                    • Z [email protected]

                                      Far-Right politicians in Germany could be banned from running for office under plans by the incoming government, echoing a decision in France to block Marine Le Pen from a presidential bid.

                                      morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #118

                                      Meme with a stick figure pushing someting with a stick, saying C'mon do something... The something is the German Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution

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                                      • I [email protected]

                                        yes, because what you describe is not democracy, it’s mob rule

                                        First part i agree with you but this one makes no sense to me, you are telling me that its only democracy when people align with your views, if they dont think the way you do "is not democracy". I dont agree with this one tbh.

                                        F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #119

                                        when people align with your views

                                        Where do you even get that from? Far-right "values" are just outside of the democratic spectrum. Far-right ideologies are invariably rooted in hurting minorities, usually defined on the basis of outward characteristics like phenotype.

                                        Wikipedia:

                                        One theory holds that democracy requires three fundamental principles: upward control (sovereignty residing at the lowest levels of authority), political equality, and social norms by which individuals and institutions only consider acceptable acts that reflect the first two principles of upward control and political equality.[26] Legal equality, political freedom and rule of law[27] are often identified by commentators as foundational characteristics for a well-functioning democracy.[19]

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                                        • I [email protected]

                                          First of all, no. They won't exist and can't establish anything similar if the party gets forbidden. They won't be able to do shit.

                                          Second of all, there is no next right wing populist party like that.

                                          That's the whole reason to ban a party.

                                          F This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #120

                                          Tbf, if you remember, the Afd started out as a party critical to European integration and the Euro in particular. They were right of Merkel's CDU and they were dumb but they were not fascist. But very, very quickly, they were infiltrated in various ways by people and funds who were previously entangled with the NPD (now "Heimat").

                                          And there definitely are a bunch of other right-wing parties that ex-Afd people could hop onto: Werteunion, Bündnis Deutschland, yada.

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