China urges citizens to trade in 'old lithium e-bikes' for newer lead acid electric bikes

[crimedad@lemmy.crimedad.work]

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[jeena@piefed.jeena.net]

I mean there are quite many fires in China started by those e-bikes but I thought it was because of bad quality.

[rumba@lemmy.zip]

There are chemistries that are less volatile But they're less energy dense as well.

The biggest problem I see on most of the Chinese stuff is a lack of safety in the battery packs. They're just mass-producing cells and shoving them together, It wouldn't be very expensive to put a small battery management system on every cell. Watch each cell for voltage and temperature. Have them shut down when they're out of safety margins

[cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de]

I thought they would have been pushing for sodium ion batteries instead. Lead acid batteries are a bad choice for anything that needs to be cycled frequently.

[chaoticneutralczech@feddit.org]

LiFePO4 is still superior to traction lead-acid in pretty much every way: energy density, safety, time and cycle life, internal resistance... Yes, they need a BMS but those are very cheap and lots of batteries have them built-in. In fact, I was unable to find 4-cell packs without a BMS inside so I could put two of them in series and balance the 8S cells with each other using an active BMS of my choice, and ended up ordering individual cells and screwing them together.

[noride@lemm.ee]

Also worth mentioning LiFePO4 is like half the weight of lead acid and it's far less susceptible to voltage sag under load. The only area I think LiFePO4 runs into challenges is the inability to charge below freezing. Lead acid is a real workhorse when it comes to the extremes.

[mouselemming@sh.itjust.works]

Last part of the article basically says sodium ion batteries are where they're going next.

[chaoscruiser@futurology.today]

The article also mentions sodium ion batteries as an alternative. Can’t wait to see how they perform in real life.

[jabathekek@sopuli.xyz]

IIRC there is already an e-scooter you can buy that has a sodium ion battery. From a chinese company (ofc) that I forget the name of. It touts fast charging and basically performs just fin down to -20C.

[cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de]

If you need to charge LiFePO4 batteries below freezing, you can add a heater to the pack. There are even some batteries available now with built in heaters that come on automatically below freezing.

[monkdervierte@lemmy.ml]

However, safety concerns regarding rare yet dangerous lithium-ion battery fires have put a pause on that proliferation.

Urging citizens to buy new and inferior instead of increasing safety standards?

I'm Swiss and it's common knowledge here that chinese imported transportation devices can be russian roulette to use.

[monkdervierte@lemmy.ml]

From what i know the issue seems to be too lax safety margins in packaging, to increase density.

[seekpie@lemm.ee]

This one maybe?

[chaoscruiser@futurology.today]

This is big news. Why isn’t everyone already talking about SIBs? Also, the 145 Wh/kg sits neatly between LFP and NMC. As long as the other properties are reasonable, it should stand a chance against NMC.

[5in1k@lemm.ee]

Less than half in my experience. I bought two 100ah 12v lifepos and they are under 30 lbs. 23lbs I believe. I have a lead acid deep cycle of the same power and it’s like 80-90.

[crimedad@lemmy.crimedad.work]

Are AGM batteries really inferior? Sure, they're heavier, but they aren't vulnerable to autoignition and thermal runaway. They also contain less conflict minerals than other types of batteries.

[hovercat@lemmy.blahaj.zone]

AGM are absolutely awful compared to even the absolute worst lithium batteries, and won't last long at all if regularly cycled below even 50% SoC. LFP chemistries are a bit worse for energy density compared to NCA/NCM chemistries, but they don't contain any nickel or cobalt, and won't autoignite in the same way other chemistries will. Absolutely ridiculous they're suggesting lead batteries over better lithium options.

[dudeimmacgyver@sh.itjust.works]

newer

lead acid

Uh, wtf?

[fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de]

I thought AGM were considered "deep cycle", as in designed for their full capacity to be used between charges.

[buzz86us@lemmy.world]

Damn I'd have atleast waited until sodium ion was built out