The kid became Ronald McDonald...
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Media targeted at a large audience tends to dumb moral and philosophical conundrums down to the simplest possible gesture instead of taking the ideas seriously.
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Never played that game, what is the context?
Revenge bad
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Batman: "I would never take the life of even the most evil of villains" Breaks the neck of a petty thief Snaps the femur of a low level Mafia grunt
Ah, the usual "I saw that scene from Snyder's BatmanVSuperman so I feel I can authoritatively speak to the entire character"
He has gone through probably hundreds of writers at this point, all with their own interpretations. But generally, when they stick to the "I hate killing and guns" type, he's not breaking mooks over his knee Bane style. It's not universal, and some of the writing is just bad. But that doesn't define the character anywhere except the minds of people who just want something to shit on.
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Batman: "I would never take the life of even the most evil of villains" Breaks the neck of a petty thief Snaps the femur of a low level Mafia grunt
Hands the Joker unscathed to the police only for him to escape 10 minutes later
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I played that game with my best friend and we hated every single second of it. To me, this is the game version of GoT season 8.
I still find it incredible that Druckmann stuck to his guns and copy pasted this terribly executed storyline into the second season of the show. Idiot learned nothing. I'm glad I decided to skip the second season and just enjoy the first season as a stand alone. Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey did a great job as Joel and Ellie, but I sincerely doubt that even they could save the used toilet paper that is the script for Last of Us 2.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Same. I was looking forward to it so much, loved the first one, but this ruined my mood for weeks during the already shitty covid & lockdown period. And not in a “sad story” way, but in a “I waited years and I got disappointed” way.
Now the negative reaction of general audience to the second season of the show demonstrates how the story just sucks regardless of the medium, but gamers were gaslighted into thinking that only transphobe incels hated the game. Well, I guess not.
I loved the gameplay and the graphics, but the story is just badly written and utter shit. My wife loves to watch me play, but was scratching her head in the final hours of this game, trying to make sense of this mess.
And this would be fine, art is subjective, they took a risk, it didn’t work out - but if you dare point this out, you get branded a hater/bigot/etc and your opinion is discredited. Well fuck them, I paid full price for this game on day 1, and I didn’t like it. My opinion is valid, so I’m going to repeat it as many times as I want to.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
because they want us to kill each other, the low ranking riffraff and feel nothing over that, but not the big badd bbillionaires and friends
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Strong Last of Us 2 vibes.
That game had such an interesting setup and completely fucking fumbled every single second.
The idea of a split story arc where two hurt people are hunting one another for revenge and how it devastates the both of them in the end is so cool, but then it's written with the emotional intelligence of a five year old and completely fucking missing the concept of subtlety and earned pay offs. Everything is forced, everything is overly mean spirited to the point where you just kinds hate everybody and roots for no one. You're literally forced as the player to torture and kill several people and animals throughout the game.
And when you finally get to the climax there's a lame as fuck "revenge is bad mkay" message tagged on to the end. It rings hollow and it isn't earned. Such an immature script trying to tackle such an interesting concept.
It really shows you that there are no bad ideas, only bad execution.
Legacy of Kain: Defiance handled that concept much better.
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Hands the Joker unscathed to the police only for him to escape 10 minutes later
Puts the Joker into an asylum that does nothing to care for its patients' mental health and is trivially easy to escape from despite the fact that, as a well-connected billionaire, he could easily lobby to have it replaced with a more effective facility.
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You're killing me.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]69,421.5
Edit: Please update when you're fully dead, OP, so I can finalize the new count.
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Legacy of Kain: Defiance handled that concept much better.
Haven't played that game, but I will take your word for it!
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I'm not an expert, but I'm like five-nines certain a guillotine does not make a "D'aww" sound when activated.
We could build that in. Glue on some googly eyes too.
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There is a good version of that.
All you had to do was put the controller down and walk away.
Claims moral superiority for never buying the game and instead buying Factorio
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Yeah it's a weird confidence in the justice of the afterlife.
If you want the maximum amount of suffering for the perpetrator (something the US justice system seems eager to) then killing them only with it if there's a Satan grilling his ass. If their existence just ends it's rather merciful.
So even if you are hell bent on having a punitive sentencing system (even though it's proven to be unhelpful for everybody involved) the death sentence doesn't make sense at all.
A life sentence where the perpetrator is kept alive for as long as possible, against their will (which is ironicall supposed the merciful thing according to the pro life folks (who also overlap with pro death sentence folk, interestingly)) is technically the most severe form of punishment.
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Same. I was looking forward to it so much, loved the first one, but this ruined my mood for weeks during the already shitty covid & lockdown period. And not in a “sad story” way, but in a “I waited years and I got disappointed” way.
Now the negative reaction of general audience to the second season of the show demonstrates how the story just sucks regardless of the medium, but gamers were gaslighted into thinking that only transphobe incels hated the game. Well, I guess not.
I loved the gameplay and the graphics, but the story is just badly written and utter shit. My wife loves to watch me play, but was scratching her head in the final hours of this game, trying to make sense of this mess.
And this would be fine, art is subjective, they took a risk, it didn’t work out - but if you dare point this out, you get branded a hater/bigot/etc and your opinion is discredited. Well fuck them, I paid full price for this game on day 1, and I didn’t like it. My opinion is valid, so I’m going to repeat it as many times as I want to.
It is so insidious when they do that with any piece of media. Use minority groups as a shield against well deserved criticism. It'd just been a thing in entertainment for so long that I kinda ended up tapping out and focusing on indie stuff more.
I literally cannot imagine creating something that is so incompetent, so shit and then using trans people as a shield to avoid taking responsibility for me delivering a shitty product.
Worst part is that I think it was almost deliberate. It just felt so hateful and like every decision was crafted to specifically hurt the fans and, as you say, gaslight them by accusing them of hating minority groups. So fucking disgusting. If you look at the teaser scene that was published way back before the game's release, where Abby is getting hanged, she is suspiciously more feminine looking. Why did they change that? To piss off the gamers.
They also made every single ad seem like Ellie was on a revenge rampage because of Dina's murder and that Joel was either going to join her or that his "ghost" would be by her side as her mental health tanks.
My friend and I had a lot of theories about the story of the game back when those teasers came out.
And then they go and create the most cruel, mean spirited murder scene of a beloved character that everybody already expected to get a send off in this game and afterwards they act smug and/or like victims when the fan reactions roll in.
They knew what they were doing. It was so gross. Joel's murder was probably one of the most physically disturbed reactions I have jhad to a piece of media because it felt like personal hatred directed against the player. Like, where the fuck did that come from, asshole? All I ever did was enjoy your game.
Are there some asshole fans out there who fit the stereotype of a sexist gamer? Of course there are, but the vast majority of fans are just normal people whose only crime was to get invested in a story, a world and its characters and we all got punished for it.
To me, that is behavior from a creator that I will never support and too many creators in the hollywood/LA sphere have had this gross attitude towards fans for too long. When you treat an entire fan base with disgust because of what a small minority does, you are no longer a professional who deserves their time and money. It literally is the equivalent of going to a restaurant and the chef going up to your table and spitting in your food because he had a few shitty customers the other day. Like good fucking luck bringing new customers to your restaurant in the future.
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"You should feel bad for utilizing these gameplay mechanics we designed the game around. You monster!"
I distinctly remember them claiming that you had the choice to spare the dogs, but they would viciously attack you and blow your cover every chance you got so you literally didn't have any other choice than to kill them sometimes. Then there were the plot related actions where the story took your choices away from you and forced you to kill a dog and torture a woman to death as Ellie.
And the ironic thing was that they claimed they wanted you to feel bad for killing people in the game and had the npcs yelling out the names of the people you killed, but I literally felt nothing.
Meanwhile when I played the first game and got to the hospital scene, I was so fucking devastated because I didnt want to kill the fireflies. Up until that point you had mostly killed zombies and deranged people who were directly putting you and ellie in danger. But the fireflies felt different. I was so devastated making my way to Ellie. The game did a fantastic job showing how Joel was crossing a line in his humanity in order to protect the one person in the world that gave his life meaning. It was at once a very beautiful and very tragic climax to a story about humanity in dire circumstances. So beautifully made.
Ain't gonna sit there and cry over some random dog or some dumb npc named Jason when I'm forced to plow down hundreds of them while rarely if ever getting to attack zombies becuase they're barely present in the game by comparison.
If you want to treat human lives as precious in your game, don't make your player kill them by the hundreds the whole time. Fuck man. I sometimes wonder if Druckmann really wrote the first game at all or if he just took credit for some underling's work because I struggle to believe that the same writer who wrote this emotionally complex game is also the same writer who pooped out its sequel.
Sorry for long rant. I just really hate that stupid game.
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I distinctly remember them claiming that you had the choice to spare the dogs, but they would viciously attack you and blow your cover every chance you got so you literally didn't have any other choice than to kill them sometimes. Then there were the plot related actions where the story took your choices away from you and forced you to kill a dog and torture a woman to death as Ellie.
And the ironic thing was that they claimed they wanted you to feel bad for killing people in the game and had the npcs yelling out the names of the people you killed, but I literally felt nothing.
Meanwhile when I played the first game and got to the hospital scene, I was so fucking devastated because I didnt want to kill the fireflies. Up until that point you had mostly killed zombies and deranged people who were directly putting you and ellie in danger. But the fireflies felt different. I was so devastated making my way to Ellie. The game did a fantastic job showing how Joel was crossing a line in his humanity in order to protect the one person in the world that gave his life meaning. It was at once a very beautiful and very tragic climax to a story about humanity in dire circumstances. So beautifully made.
Ain't gonna sit there and cry over some random dog or some dumb npc named Jason when I'm forced to plow down hundreds of them while rarely if ever getting to attack zombies becuase they're barely present in the game by comparison.
If you want to treat human lives as precious in your game, don't make your player kill them by the hundreds the whole time. Fuck man. I sometimes wonder if Druckmann really wrote the first game at all or if he just took credit for some underling's work because I struggle to believe that the same writer who wrote this emotionally complex game is also the same writer who pooped out its sequel.
Sorry for long rant. I just really hate that stupid game.
I played and liked the first game, but when I read the reviews of part II it reminded me of the torture mission in GTA5, which I absolutely hated. So I skipped it, and I'm glad I did.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote on last edited by [email protected]
For me, the best version of this is Avatar: The Last Airbender. Aang spends an entire arc lamenting how he may need to spill blood and kill the Fire Lord. Meanwhile the very same Aang had previously sunk an entire naval fleet single-handedly.
How many thousands of sailors, most of them probably people drafted against their will, did you kill that day Aang? Remember when you literally sliced entire ships in half? Your hands cut through steel, would you have even felt the flesh you were cutting through? Or how about all those ships you sank? A fair number sank instantly. You think everybody got out safely from those ships? Or how about that time you destroyed that giant drill machine, the one manned by thousands of soldiers, outside the walls of Ba Sing Se? You think everyone managed to miraculously escape that fireball? And those are just the major battles. How about the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of fire nation soldiers you casually tossed around like rag dolls with your powers of air, water, and earth during dozens of minor skirmishes? What are the odds you managed to toss all these men around like playthings and NOT have a few of them have their skulls bashed open on rocks when they hit the ground wrong?
The point of this is not to condemn Aang's actions through the series. His actions were fully justified, as he was fighting a war against an expansionist colonial military power. What he did was an objective good. But by the time he's hand wringing about having to kill Fire Lord Ozai, Aang had almost certainly already taken hundreds of lives. Hell, he probably killed hundreds just in that final climactic battle against the airship armada. The Hindenburg disaster saw 1/3 of the passenger and crew parish. And that was from an airship that crashed when it was already landing and close to the ground. Aang was dropping ships from miles in the sky. Maybe some soldiers with fire bending powers could somehow slow their own descent enough to survive, maybe they had some parachutes. But there's zero chance that Armada didn't have a fatality rate at least comparable to the Hindenburg disaster.
So Aang blithely kills hundreds of conscripts without a second thought. But then he has a crisis of conscience that takes multiple episodes to resolve, and that crisis of conscience is all about...Fire Lord Ozai? This is like if someone nonchalantly participated in the Firebombing of Dresden and then suddenly developed complex moral doubts about putting a bullet in Hitler's head. Aang had already killed hundreds of people that Ozai had sent to their deaths. No one was forcing Ozai. He wasn't a conscript. He had full autonomy; he's the absolute ruler of the Fire Nation. He doesn't even have a Congress or Parliament to answer to. He has absolute total moral responsibility for every evil thing the Fire Nation has done. Yet, when it comes to actually holding the powerful accountable, suddenly Aang wants to talk about the morality of killing.
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We could build that in. Glue on some googly eyes too.
A nice clownly guffaw right before impact would be delightful.
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For me, the best version of this is Avatar: The Last Airbender. Aang spends an entire arc lamenting how he may need to spill blood and kill the Fire Lord. Meanwhile the very same Aang had previously sunk an entire naval fleet single-handedly.
How many thousands of sailors, most of them probably people drafted against their will, did you kill that day Aang? Remember when you literally sliced entire ships in half? Your hands cut through steel, would you have even felt the flesh you were cutting through? Or how about all those ships you sank? A fair number sank instantly. You think everybody got out safely from those ships? Or how about that time you destroyed that giant drill machine, the one manned by thousands of soldiers, outside the walls of Ba Sing Se? You think everyone managed to miraculously escape that fireball? And those are just the major battles. How about the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of fire nation soldiers you casually tossed around like rag dolls with your powers of air, water, and earth during dozens of minor skirmishes? What are the odds you managed to toss all these men around like playthings and NOT have a few of them have their skulls bashed open on rocks when they hit the ground wrong?
The point of this is not to condemn Aang's actions through the series. His actions were fully justified, as he was fighting a war against an expansionist colonial military power. What he did was an objective good. But by the time he's hand wringing about having to kill Fire Lord Ozai, Aang had almost certainly already taken hundreds of lives. Hell, he probably killed hundreds just in that final climactic battle against the airship armada. The Hindenburg disaster saw 1/3 of the passenger and crew parish. And that was from an airship that crashed when it was already landing and close to the ground. Aang was dropping ships from miles in the sky. Maybe some soldiers with fire bending powers could somehow slow their own descent enough to survive, maybe they had some parachutes. But there's zero chance that Armada didn't have a fatality rate at least comparable to the Hindenburg disaster.
So Aang blithely kills hundreds of conscripts without a second thought. But then he has a crisis of conscience that takes multiple episodes to resolve, and that crisis of conscience is all about...Fire Lord Ozai? This is like if someone nonchalantly participated in the Firebombing of Dresden and then suddenly developed complex moral doubts about putting a bullet in Hitler's head. Aang had already killed hundreds of people that Ozai had sent to their deaths. No one was forcing Ozai. He wasn't a conscript. He had full autonomy; he's the absolute ruler of the Fire Nation. He doesn't even have a Congress or Parliament to answer to. He has absolute total moral responsibility for every evil thing the Fire Nation has done. Yet, when it comes to actually holding the powerful accountable, suddenly Aang wants to talk about the morality of killing.
wrong bracket in the Link.
Also: good writeup, I like it
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wrong bracket in the Link.
Also: good writeup, I like it
Thanks! Fixed.
