Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact simply covered up by the usual patriotism?
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There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
"Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?"
And
"Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!"
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the "good old days" of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
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We know. We hate it.
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There are plenty of racists who aren't fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren't fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren't fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren't fascist. Stupidity and racism predates fascism.
Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.
It's frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying "well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!". It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.
Well I voted against the Orange fascist. Should I go hold an anti Tesla sign at a dealership? What do you expect the response should be with the next presidential election four years away?
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The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
It might be you who needs to grow up. This is a weird knee jerk reaction.
Non Americans should be able to ask a question about America without being told to "grow up".
It's not childish to wonder how much Americans understand about how fucked up their choice of leadership is. We're not psychic.
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What internet? The one algorithmically controlled by the oligarchs?
What TV? The stations that were purchased years ago by our country's oligarchs?
What conversations? When everyone around them is being fed the same misinformation, and they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy?
I would not assume the average American has any idea what is going on.
they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy
There's the problem.
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Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you're there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
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Fuck off. You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren't for your pale skin, you most likely would've been deported or murdered before you even tried. Now you're supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. jfc.
That person is delusional. If North America were a group of Indigenous nations it wouldn't have been a major immigration target for European refugees.
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What's poor old Luxembourg ever done to offend you so?
A billionaire tax haven where over 50% of the labourers are non-citizens?
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Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
"Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?"
And
"Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!"
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the "good old days" of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
Liberals are just as much reactionaries as conservatives. They simply disagree on which status quo they’d like to return to and who is acceptable to exploit.
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We've been in a rogue state for a long time. Its been an oligarchy for a while, now you also have AIPAC in the mix.
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Bullshit. It's easier than ever to know what's going on in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for not knowing how bad things are.
Not being able to do much of anything about it due to having to deal with day to day concerns, I get. But as an excuse for being ignorant? Absolutely not. That's a deliberate choice.
I think you're projecting the deliberate choice part. It think a lot of folks can get reasonably caught up in their own lives and not look into things too deep. It's effort to overhaul your information intake. Lots of folks have very little effort left over after work, and Its is reasonable to assume nothing has convinced them that their news is bad.
I think its easier than ever to get the info, but that still doesn't mean its easy enough that everyone and their mom automatically knows what they should be paying attention to.
Making these things about personal failings feels very unproductive. There is a lot to focus on in life. It seems better to try and make the subject approachable and comfortable.
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Lots and lots of people, actually. Many identify with the tough-talkin' images being projected, believing it's just what the world needs and that the magic sorting hat will assign them to the privileged class when the dust settles.
Pretty much it. They have been trained by decades of "if it bleeds it leads" news, Fox news, and talk radio to be in perpetual fear and see themselves as being under attack. The internet has fueled this wildly. They see everyone as being out to take their way of life away, steal their money (taxes), needing guns against the mobs waiting outside of their door, etc. On top of that is an apocalyptic mindset that used to be just evangelical Christian but now has become a secular mentality of "shake society hard enough and we'll magically come out on top". It is the lottery mentality of success, no effort, no self improvement just have it fall into your lap.
Meanwhile the wealthy continue to push for the degradation of society as long as it serves them in their lifetimes. Cut corp taxes to nothing, cut capital gains taxes, move from income taxes to sales taxes, buy struggling businesses, fire everyone, don't pay debts, take out loans against it then cash in on selling the pieces. Destroy the environment because only future generations will pay for that. Corp and capital gains tax cuts and tariffs put more and more of the burden on the lower and middle classes. Get rid of education oversight, medical research, financial watchdogs, etc, none of those matter to the wealthy who will always have access to private schools, concierge doctors, financial advisors, lawyers, etc. They just keep distracting the working class and rural voters with frivolous culture wars distractions while they pick your pockets.
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I'm not from the US - that's why I'm asking. Thanks for the insights into the lives of US citizens. It's even sadder than I thought. But rest assured: it's not like this everywhere in the world. Not yet at least and the rest of the world just needs to see that your horrible government doesn't force your way of life on everyone - because that's what Trump and his criminal crew want.
I felt safer roaming in Detroit's urban decay than traveling through a village or town in a red run welfare state.
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Nope, because most US voters never crossed their county line.
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The average American voter is hilariously unengaged. Many of them read at an 8th grade level at best. We're suffering the consequences of an education system that has been tragically underfunded for generations, and our media institutions are thoroughly compromised. Because of this, media literacy may as well be non-existent. The worst actors in our public institutions know this and have chosen to capitalize on it. Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
We are completely lacking the most crucial part of any functional democracy - an informed electorate. We have the least qualified people making the most important decisions.
The United States is effectively a failed state. Many of us recognize this, but our options for addressing the problem are limited. We not only have to dislodge the largest defense structure the world has ever seen, but we have to somehow fix the plague of weaponized stupidity that is conservative culture in order to ensure the worst humans don't end up in powerful positions.
If you have any suggestions on how to start fixing that, I'm all ears.
Parents set the stage for valuing education. If there is no value on it at home it will be reflected in the kids and it will then be passed through the generations. Generation after generation of barely getting by and failure.
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Well I voted against the Orange fascist. Should I go hold an anti Tesla sign at a dealership? What do you expect the response should be with the next presidential election four years away?
Honestly dog, this is exactly the right question. I get it. Shoutout to you for asking it. Truly.
From the liberal perspective, this is exactly how it goes. "I voted against fascism, yet fascism still festers. What gives?"
The liberal framework pushes the idea that electoralism is the be all end all form of political participation, but leftists refute this. Leftists say that you have a plethora of other tools at your disposal to express yourself politically: buy a gun, do mutual aid, join an organization, read theory, participate in local politics, etc...
If your question is earnest, I'd encourage you to read some Lenin.
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There are some workable solutions inside the nation as well, as the federal system is dismantled. If WA, OR, CA, HI, the tribal counsels, and maybe AZ and NM (if they can play nice) got together, we could do a number of things to shore up the left part of the US.
First, states are not subject to patent. Each could choose a critical, expensive medication and produce it, sharing supply around the compact. Tribes could easily make epi-pens for their share.
Second, tie this into a compact equivalent of a multi-state healthcare that creates a floor healthcare for all citizens. Hawaii could lead this effort, they essentially already have it in their state. Get to the point you can cover people with income up to $70,000/yr california equivalent (based on living expenses) and let healthcare companies create supplemental plans like for medicare.
Third, as trump wrecks FEMA, form compacts for emergency response with mexico and canada and among these states. This is not currently legal but if FEMA is gone, why not just do it and who cares.
Fourth, create cooperative food sharing among states for excess crops. Federal programs just got destroyed, and california has a lot of excess supply. Let the compact members have a market where they can, as states, buy excess for their food programs. Let the program deal as an entity with non-compact states, which isn’t controlling interstate commerce, feds, it’s just the free market at work using the power of liberty to make red states either meet the price or we look outside the US.
A lot of this just recreates existing structures that are being destroyed, but leaves the red states that destroyed them to fend for themselves.
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Nope, because most US voters never crossed their county line.
That’s not true.
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For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument... then they'd see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan's podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, "is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?"
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you're always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
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In the Los Angeles Mexican community no one is fucking aware. In the Chicago black community no one is fucking aware. I'm sick of the people in this shit hole. They are happy as long as they have their bread and circus, no matter what.
