Hashtags do not replace groups.
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@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool I think you're missing the point - it's not "what is PF/Masto/whatever", it's "how do they relate to each other, exactly, in a way I can understand & benefit from?" I've been in fedi for a few years & have, in fact, been asking the stupid questions, but I still don't quite understand either...
@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool The best way to understand the Fediverse is not as a collection of servers but instead as actors that implement activities.
You are an actor. A Lemmy community is an actor. A bot is an actor. An app is an actor.
All these things do activities. One activity is to like a post. Another activity is to repost.
And all these apps like Mastodon are just presenting these actors/activities in a certain format.
Hope that explains things. -
@atomicpoet @fediverse Wait.. is *that* how it works to follow a lemmy .. whatever the equivalent is of a subreddit .. group? anyway, you just follow @groupname@instancename? How did I not understand this before?
@LibertyForward1 @fediverse Not only can you follow, you can post to a Lemmy community from Mastodon by mentioning the Lemmy community. In fact, you just mentioned a Lemmy community, so you’re using Lemmy right now—but from you’re perspective, it looks like Mastodon. -
I follow topics and have discussions on Lemmy, keep up with individuals and announcements on Mastodon, and look at cool photos on Pixelfed.
None of my accounts are following anything on other systems.The reason I'm in this community is for discussions like this. We disagree on the nature of using he fundamental architecture of the Fediverse.
I think using Mastodon to engage in Lemmy discussions is extremely awkward without the threading to keep it all organized. Equally, Lemmy is designed specifically around following communities. Following individuals on Mastodon breaks the pattern of the feed. And good luck following either Mastodon accounts or Lemmy groups in Pixelfed.However, having multiple decentralized servers within each system, is plenty of reason for the Fediverse to be better than a centralized platform.
@Steve @shnizmuffin I follow one Lemmy community through my Mastodon account because it is mainly a casual chatty daily thread group. It +is+ weird, and not ideal as it doesn't show images for some reason, but I still kindof like that way of reading. I've got a separate Lemmy account for a bunch of Lemmy communities, and that works better generally. But I do like that they interoperate to some degree.
I also follow a bunch of hashtags and like them too. I find it all brilliant tbh, and love that it exists and isn't controlled by fucking billionaires.
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@LibertyForward1 @fediverse Not only can you follow, you can post to a Lemmy community from Mastodon by mentioning the Lemmy community. In fact, you just mentioned a Lemmy community, so you’re using Lemmy right now—but from you’re perspective, it looks like Mastodon.
@atomicpoet @fediverse trippy
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@atomicpoet @BenDoubleU I feel it's worth pointing out in this context that from the perspective of a Masto server, this thread features several accounts with no avi, bio, follows or followers. I assume they're the Lemmy accounts?
As a Twitter vet I've developed an aversion to engaging *at all* with newly-created accounts lacking properly fleshed-out profiles!
But it's still cool there's these options. Perhaps the integration will improve?
@ApostateEnglishman But you're not a Twitter user anymore, so maybe it's time to let that go. You're part of something much bigger than Twitter-style micro-blogging. Lemmy users will usually have profiles -- although not typically as extensive as Mastodon users -- but following users or being followed doesn't make any sense on Lemmy. The primary unit is the community (group) not the user. -
@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool The best way to understand the Fediverse is not as a collection of servers but instead as actors that implement activities.
You are an actor. A Lemmy community is an actor. A bot is an actor. An app is an actor.
All these things do activities. One activity is to like a post. Another activity is to repost.
And all these apps like Mastodon are just presenting these actors/activities in a certain format.
Hope that explains things.@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool It doesn't, not even close. It's way too abstract, even for me - I absoutely guarantee you, nobody looking for an alternative to keeping up with friends on Insta or Facebook will be able to connect what you just said to that need / desire, let alone make a decision based on it.
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@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool It doesn't, not even close. It's way too abstract, even for me - I absoutely guarantee you, nobody looking for an alternative to keeping up with friends on Insta or Facebook will be able to connect what you just said to that need / desire, let alone make a decision based on it.
@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool No, those concepts aren’t for everyday users. It’s for developers. For the same reason a homeowner doesn’t need to know the ins and out of architecture, an everyday user does need to know about the architecture of the Fediverse.
Nevertheless, it’s how ActivityPub works—and I will go more in depth in a future thread for those who want to know. -
@atomicpoet @fediverse trippy
Hello from Lemmy, I can see you. Can you see me?
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@atomicpoet @fediverse trippy
New lemmy's instance here. Hello.
I come on your topic to test. Might as well enjoy of your topic. -
Hashtags do not replace groups.
No one moderates them. They’re easy to hijack and spam. And there’s simply no permanence to them.
Which is why, if you actually want to discuss something, it’s better to tag a group. For example, if you want to be part of an actual PC gaming community on the Fediverse, it’s better to tag
@[email protected]than#pcgaming.This needs to be common knowledge because people new to the Fediverse do not know about groups. Hell, I’d say people who have had Mastodon accounts for years still don’t know. And that’s a shame.
I really hope there's better handling of Mastodon user comments on Lemmy, because all the comments tagging other users are an absolute mess. Are Mastodon users doing this on purpose or is their client tagging the users automatically?
If this were to become more common I'd probably just think about find out a way to block Mastodon users so I don't see their comments.
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@jwcph @fediverse @Coolmccool No, those concepts aren’t for everyday users. It’s for developers. For the same reason a homeowner doesn’t need to know the ins and out of architecture, an everyday user does need to know about the architecture of the Fediverse.
Nevertheless, it’s how ActivityPub works—and I will go more in depth in a future thread for those who want to know.@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool That's what I mean - I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is expecting every developer to also be able to explain the usefulness of the fediverse to casual users, but some of us do feel, I think, that there's a lack of fundamental recognition that developer explanations are beside the point as far as most regular people are concerned, which can cause the unwelcoming impression for non-devs that we hear people talk about fairly regularly.
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@ApostateEnglishman But you're not a Twitter user anymore, so maybe it's time to let that go. You're part of something much bigger than Twitter-style micro-blogging. Lemmy users will usually have profiles -- although not typically as extensive as Mastodon users -- but following users or being followed doesn't make any sense on Lemmy. The primary unit is the community (group) not the user.
@breakfastmtn Thanks. So far I've tried Friendica, Misskey and Hubzilla, as well as three different Mastodon servers. So I do understand that Masto is not the whole fedi.
It's just that so far as I was concerned, "Lemmy" is a dead rock star who had a penchant for Nazi memorabilia.
I'd never heard of it as a fedi service until Chris' post, yesterday!
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@atomicpoet @fediverse @Coolmccool That's what I mean - I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is expecting every developer to also be able to explain the usefulness of the fediverse to casual users, but some of us do feel, I think, that there's a lack of fundamental recognition that developer explanations are beside the point as far as most regular people are concerned, which can cause the unwelcoming impression for non-devs that we hear people talk about fairly regularly.
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] To be blunt, “it’s like email” is probably good enough for 95% of casual users in terms of an explanation for how the Fediverse works.
It’s all just email. Mastodon, Pixelfed, and Lemmy are really all just email.
But the moment you ask, “Well, actually, how does it all work? How is it possible to use Lemmy with Mastodon?”
The answer is: actors.
And maybe that is abstract, but I assure you that’s the practical reason you’re able to do it. Once you understand that the Fediverse is made up of actors/activities, a whole new world of possibilities opens up—even for regular users. It’s why you’re participating on Lemmy right now, even though it still looks like “Mastodon” to you.
Now I’m sorry that you may perceive this as “beside the point,” but people ask how it works and I’m telling you. However, if this is too abstract, remember: it’s all “email”.
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@Steve @shnizmuffin I follow one Lemmy community through my Mastodon account because it is mainly a casual chatty daily thread group. It +is+ weird, and not ideal as it doesn't show images for some reason, but I still kindof like that way of reading. I've got a separate Lemmy account for a bunch of Lemmy communities, and that works better generally. But I do like that they interoperate to some degree.
I also follow a bunch of hashtags and like them too. I find it all brilliant tbh, and love that it exists and isn't controlled by fucking billionaires.
That sounds good.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to interoperate at all. Just that this kind of thing isn't, and never will be ideal. I'm pushing back on the idea, that one account for all the Fediverse is the best and greatest, that everyone should be striving for that goal.It's a principal of reality. Trying to make something that can do everything, will mean it's not great at anything. Specialization is what allows society to grow to what it is. The Fediverse is no different.
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Hashtags do not replace groups.
No one moderates them. They’re easy to hijack and spam. And there’s simply no permanence to them.
Which is why, if you actually want to discuss something, it’s better to tag a group. For example, if you want to be part of an actual PC gaming community on the Fediverse, it’s better to tag
@[email protected]than#pcgaming.This needs to be common knowledge because people new to the Fediverse do not know about groups. Hell, I’d say people who have had Mastodon accounts for years still don’t know. And that’s a shame.
How does it show up in Lemmy if someone on Mastodon tags a Lemmy instance? Just curious.
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@m3t00 @fediverse Give me more context and what you specifically mean.
@atomicpoet @fediverse
Go to their account profile and mute them. Block w/e -
How does it show up in Lemmy if someone on Mastodon tags a Lemmy instance? Just curious.
it's a new post in the community
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@atomicpoet @fediverse Wait.. is *that* how it works to follow a lemmy .. whatever the equivalent is of a subreddit .. group? anyway, you just follow @groupname@instancename? How did I not understand this before?
This is what I see from Lemmy.world
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it's a new post in the community
So if there's 50,000 users in a conversation and they all keep "tagging" the community instead of a hashtag, then that community would have thousands of new posts?
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@breakfastmtn Thanks. So far I've tried Friendica, Misskey and Hubzilla, as well as three different Mastodon servers. So I do understand that Masto is not the whole fedi.
It's just that so far as I was concerned, "Lemmy" is a dead rock star who had a penchant for Nazi memorabilia.
I'd never heard of it as a fedi service until Chris' post, yesterday!
️@ApostateEnglishman You should check it out. Lemmy's great! Interoperability is terrific but I think the way information and discussion are displayed in Lemmy* is superior for deeper dives and being "in" a discussion. Not at all a knock on Mastodon, which is perfect for what it is. They're just trying to be different things that have different strengths
- PieFed and mbin too, the other "threadiverse" projects
