Seems like the perfect day to ask: Muricans, what's your dream country to expatriate to? Non-Muricans, what's the thought on accepting US refugees?
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Probably Romania, cheap cost of living while still being in Europe and being a part of NATO.
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I'm glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
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the country i was to go to is the imagined America of our ancestors like Langston Hughes, the land of equality and opportunity and liberation and diversity, full of immigrants working for their own and their shared futures
Is there a sign-up sheet?
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Ex patriots move to work in a foreign country for a limited period, with the intention of returning to their home country. Typically these are white collar workers who move between their employer's offices for 2-3 years and then return home.
Immigrants move with the intention of staying in the new country long term.
However, with the negative connotations attached to immigrants, some people - primarily white, highly educated people - incorrectly refer to themselves as expats, even once it's clear they intend to stay.
I’ve seen a lot of online hate for expats
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Even though things aren't going as they should, I wouldn't be likely to leave. I don't agree with a lot of what's happening here, but there's no nation I know that supports more of my beliefs and lifestyle than the USA. Plus, my family, my friends, and my loved ones are all here. Leaving would mean losing them, and that's totally unacceptable.
Can you expand on your beliefs and lifestyle?
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Canada. I live on the border, been there more times than I can count, and it would be the easiest to move to.
What part?
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As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that's fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn't get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn't even need the child to be born in Canada, I'd actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let's say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it's run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land's original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
I'm Canadian. I don't mind accepting American refugees as long as we also learn to accept refugees from other countries and value them all equally, but our current government isn't doing that.
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So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it's fair enough to move on.
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Sorry to be an idiot but what recently happened to make Portugal not want Americans?
Not OP, but probably because they've had a lot of immigration in recent years and it's made their housing situation worse.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Canadian here. I'll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn't vote at all can die in a ditch.
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Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it's run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land's original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn't conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn't a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
I'd be in Aukland now if I hadn't met my partner between deciding in 2021 and the election. She is a refugee and can't leave or she'll lose status. She is a political enemy of her government for advocating for democracy there. Did a phone interview and everything.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Maybe Scotland. If they could fully separate from the dead weight down south.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
Canada if possible. My family only speaks English, but willing to "do the thing" to fit in even if that's learning a new language.
I'd also be ok with UK, Australia, New Zealand.
last places would be Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain, Japan. I know living in these places would be an extreme challenge for my family so that's why they're bottom of my list.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
I'm an antinationalist with regards to usa. No
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I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn't conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn't a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Okay, but given your original comment that the people who "are already here" (eg. Canadian citizens) should be the only ones to vote, you do seem to be lending weight to the idea that people who were already here should be making the decisions.
Do you think that the first immigrants (settlers) to come here from England and France should also not have been allowed to decide on how the country was run? Or is it only new immigrants that shouldn't be allowed a voice in government? What's the cutoff?
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
For anyone who's thinking UK, I'd advise not - we're about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there's still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
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Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
wrote last edited by [email protected]Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don't like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn't compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
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For anyone who's thinking UK, I'd advise not - we're about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there's still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Also, God, the weather
