Signal's CEO: Then We're Leaving Sweden | Sweden Herald
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Apps like Signals
This was about a different app named 'Signal', I think, without the s.
Just a typo.
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Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?
https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/types-eu-law_en
Each country may still have the equivalent of a constitution, and the majority of EU laws are directives which the country may translate to fit their local law, also there's various negotiated exceptions to EU laws. But the general idea is that the treaties establishing EU are meant to require full cooperation
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Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?
The EU in general uses civil law, not common law. Courts in general don't establish precedents, so it does not matter what a court rules beyond that specific case, laws are wrtitten to be super specific, and you generally can't challenge laws in court like in the US.
The EU works through a double process of lawmaking.
It can create directives that are like how US laws work as they need specific interpretation, except it's national legislatures, not courts doing the interpretation.
And there are regulations - like the GDPR - that have to be adapted and enforced verbatim.
This is a cornerstone of the ongoing Big Tech dispute, they thought they can forum shop by buying the Irish judiciary, but they can still get indicted, even for the same violation, in any other EU court if that court also has jurisdiction.
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I'm not familiar with EU law, but wouldn't this set a precidence across the whole EU?
There is no such thing as a precedent in EU law. Any court can in general disagree with any other court. Appeals still exist, but they are only valid for that one case.
Judges don't make laws here.
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And gobbles Trump's knob publicly.
They won't need a law to force compliance.
Yeah, to be honest if you need to hide from the government, don't use Proton. Actually, don't use email.
Proton is good for hiding from Google and Facebook, and not having a life full of ads.
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I agree that it would destroy the reason many people use it, but they aren't outlawing Signal specifically. What they are doing is arguably worse, but this isn't an "anti-Signal" action.
Well yeah, they are not attacking Signal the company, just their core busibess model.
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- According to Whittaker, the bill requires the encrypted messaging app Signal to install so-called backdoors in the software.
What about Threema?
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What about Threema?
Good point
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There needs to be a messaging app which provides a backdoor for every government that requests it. Every time some dumbfuck legislator asks for a super-giga-secure-backdoor they promise not to misuse, they should be directed to that app.
goatse.cx used to work wonderfully for that.
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Brainlet questions what possible benefit a Swiss company that sells privacy might receive from cozing up to a fascist state.
Lies about what the CEO said.
Thanks non-profit is anything but a tax status. Hasn't paid enough attention to all the "non-profit" companies switching to for-profit as soon as it's financially convenient.
Doesn't realize that Proton's biggest security vulnerability is Proton the organization.
Fucking lol.
A long comment that doesn't say anything.
Yes, what possible benefit could a Swiss company that sells privacy might receive from cozing up to a fascist state?
Yes. What? Is Trump going to send them customers? Money directly? What is the benefit. If it is so obvious to you, state it clearly.
One of his direct statements btw
Quoted out of context. Yes, he thinks that Republicans are more likely to fight against big tech. Stupid? Naive? Probably. But it still doesn't mean supporting Republicans in general (or Trump).
BTW, don't take my word for it, he explicitly elaborated that point in a reddit comment.Thinks non-profit is anything but a tax status.
Imagine lol
Proton is still a for profit company (tax status muh) but it is controlled by a nonprofit, which means that the steering wheel of the nonprofit company is in the hands of an organization with no profit motive, with a solid board.
Now let me hear the mental gymnastic about tax status.Doesn't realize that Proton's biggest security vulnerability is Proton the organization.
Again a sentence that doesn't mean anything.
You want to explicitly say what this threat model means? Go ahead. Throwing things like this is pointless.Actual clown shit trying to bait people into the honeypot.
Keep your tinfoil hat, I don't care. I am not promoting even, I am stating some facts about the fact that it seems very unlikely that Proton will backdoor their encryption for no reason but to please Trump.
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What about Threema?
I found the other Threema user!
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I wanted to reply to your points but someone beat me to it.
Learn to think critically. Close the app for a day, cool off and re-read all of these replies.
Do you think we would all just dump on something for the fun of it or just to piss you off? This isnt reddit.
Cmon man, take a second, look around and understand that the taste of boot leather is not very pleasant. Proton is not here for your privacy ... I mean it is, unless you're a french journalist ... or a person of interest for the right people.
"Learn to think critically, ignore the actual facts you put together to explicit your actual reasoning, trust the fact that if 10 people down vote you or argue with you, you must be wrong"
I can't see any problem with this logic.
Yes, I think plenty of people are incompetent or just terminally online and see purity testing as a form of political activism. The fact this is not reddit doesn't mean much.
that the taste of boot leather is not very pleasant.
Q.e.d.
Let me tell you from my socialist perspective why this is absurd. Defending an organization that is an underdog in the industry, that creates product that don't harm users, that pushes for the right values (privacy) and at the same time developed a healthy business model (no VC funding, privately owned, but also no cloud usage that reduces costs and keep the money in the EU/EEA, no delocalization) is in my interests, because it is a step in the right direction within a toxic and harmful industry.
You call this boolicking? Go ahead, for me it is actually a political success if more orgs like proton succeed and outcompete big tech.unless you're a french journalist ... or a person of interest for the right people.
There is no org that can defend you from the law being applied. If that organization wants to exist they have to comply with the law. In all those cases we should blame the government for abusing laws (like antiterrorism laws for that environmental activist).
Also in neither of those cases (I am aware of 2) any mail data has been disclosed (IP addresses for VPN connection they have been forced to log and recovery address, respectively). -
He clearly didnât support Trump in general
lie
so itâs not possible to add backdoors
lie
Proton business model is inherently disincentivizing them to do so. They are a profitable company with a clear profile that would lose so many customers if they decide to do so.
Didn't work on you
Proton is incorporated in Switzerland, itâs unclear what the benefit would be to âappeaseâ Trump.
Straw man
So even if Andy Yen was a full on MAGA, he still wouldnât have autonomy to decide that.
being a non profit and him owning enough of it to do what he wants are unrelated.
There is absolutely nothing in the history of Proton that suggests they would be open to backdooring their software.
There is a long track record of choices to protect usersâ privacy.
Tell that french activist they turned logging on for and gave up to the authorities.
lie
We have the tweet, the context, his direct statements saying he didn't. You have your own interpretation.
See also https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305eso itâs not possible to add backdoor
lie
Quoting an incomplete sentence is peak bad faith.
Please, elaborate on how they can backdoor the email communication without the change be visible in the clients. Take a proton to proton communication, and show me how they can backdoor the PGP encryption.
I will propose 2 ways:- maliciously patch the JS code of the webmail client, which will show the change in the browser, network communications etc.
- simply backdoor the client which will make it visible in the repo.
Didn't work on you
Because they didn't do anything that indicates they are violating my privacy. If they would, I would redirect my domain and drop them in a blink of an eye.
Straw man
It's not a strawman lol. Pointing out the fact that it's not evident what the advantage would be is an actual argument against saying that they would backdoor the software in compliance with trump's wishes.
Asking what the benefit is for such an immoral and illegal action seems reasonable to me?being a non profit and him owning enough of it to do what he wants are unrelated
False. He gave away his stocks of the for profit company, which is now controlled by the nonprofit where he is 1 out of 5 (or 6?) In the board.
A decision like this realistically will need to be approved by the board.
Explain how he "owns enough to do what he wants" please.Tell that french activist they turned logging on for and gave up to the authorities.
what would you expect any organization could do in that position? If there is a culprit there, it is the government.
Complying with legal orders (which BTW they are transparent about and they challenge lots of them too) is a requirement for a company to operate.
There are 2 cases that I know of so far (in the other they have been forced to give all the data they had about a user, and the only data they gave was a recovery email address), and they are 100% expected. Unless you want to be a rogue organization, there is nothing you can do in those cases.
This if anything is a good test that shows how little data they collect or have.
Unfortunately for logs of VPN connection there is no technical solution that will ever prevent from logging data again (mullvad is now experimenting with a double tunnel, but that is just a small nuisance for law enforcement), like there is for encryption (I.e., encryption happened with keys we cannot retrieve, sorry can't help you). -
- According to Whittaker, the bill requires the encrypted messaging app Signal to install so-called backdoors in the software.
The Swedish politicians tried adding backdoors to encrypted apps for at least 20 years
I don't really understand why they still (ever) think it is a good idea -
Yeah, I don't get if these are Proton PR bots, or they're just heavily invested in the company and are in denial. They just take that PR, add some flourish then a bunch of unrelated BS.
Neither.
I elaborated on my reasons on a comment above.
It's also called critical thinking for me, which means I don't get influenced by whatever the new scandal in the fediverse is for who is a bad guy, and I try to think for myself.
Being a security engineer I also think to possess some competencies when it comes to understand technical setup and topics like encryption, so again, I don't take other people opinions (possibly unqualified) as gospel.That said, I have specifically listed some points to back my own side, disagreeing with those (which would be nice to elaborate on) doesn't make other people PR bots or corporate fanboys. This is a mental shortcut to avoid challenging your own opinion IMHO.
I am not suggesting everyone here is a google shill aiming to sabotage valid competitors, for example. -
He clearly didnât support Trump in general
lie
so itâs not possible to add backdoors
lie
Proton business model is inherently disincentivizing them to do so. They are a profitable company with a clear profile that would lose so many customers if they decide to do so.
Didn't work on you
Proton is incorporated in Switzerland, itâs unclear what the benefit would be to âappeaseâ Trump.
Straw man
So even if Andy Yen was a full on MAGA, he still wouldnât have autonomy to decide that.
being a non profit and him owning enough of it to do what he wants are unrelated.
There is absolutely nothing in the history of Proton that suggests they would be open to backdooring their software.
There is a long track record of choices to protect usersâ privacy.
Tell that french activist they turned logging on for and gave up to the authorities.
If y'all are expecting (and relying on) legal businesses to tell police raiding their offices to fuck off, then you clearly don't understand secops.
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The Swedish politicians tried adding backdoors to encrypted apps for at least 20 years
I don't really understand why they still (ever) think it is a good ideaThe problem is that politicians don't understand cyber security, whta their asking is basically the equivalent of closing the front door of a house and leaving the backdoor open. It was already proven to be a bad idea, eternalblue is a good example.
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Sci-fi writing in here I see
How dare you go against the lemmy hive mind. We need to shit on Proton or you will be punished with negative numbers!
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"Learn to think critically, ignore the actual facts you put together to explicit your actual reasoning, trust the fact that if 10 people down vote you or argue with you, you must be wrong"
I can't see any problem with this logic.
Yes, I think plenty of people are incompetent or just terminally online and see purity testing as a form of political activism. The fact this is not reddit doesn't mean much.
that the taste of boot leather is not very pleasant.
Q.e.d.
Let me tell you from my socialist perspective why this is absurd. Defending an organization that is an underdog in the industry, that creates product that don't harm users, that pushes for the right values (privacy) and at the same time developed a healthy business model (no VC funding, privately owned, but also no cloud usage that reduces costs and keep the money in the EU/EEA, no delocalization) is in my interests, because it is a step in the right direction within a toxic and harmful industry.
You call this boolicking? Go ahead, for me it is actually a political success if more orgs like proton succeed and outcompete big tech.unless you're a french journalist ... or a person of interest for the right people.
There is no org that can defend you from the law being applied. If that organization wants to exist they have to comply with the law. In all those cases we should blame the government for abusing laws (like antiterrorism laws for that environmental activist).
Also in neither of those cases (I am aware of 2) any mail data has been disclosed (IP addresses for VPN connection they have been forced to log and recovery address, respectively).Wow. The mental gymnastics earn you a gold medal, congrats. Good luck to you.
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How dare you go against the lemmy hive mind. We need to shit on Proton or you will be punished with negative numbers!
you will be punished with negative numbers!
Thanks for making me chuckle.
