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  3. Signal's CEO: Then We're Leaving Sweden | Sweden Herald

Signal's CEO: Then We're Leaving Sweden | Sweden Herald

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  • S [email protected]

    Sci-fi writing in here I see

    R This user is from outside of this forum
    R This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #59

    He clearly didn’t support Trump in general

    lie

    so it’s not possible to add backdoors

    lie

    Proton business model is inherently disincentivizing them to do so. They are a profitable company with a clear profile that would lose so many customers if they decide to do so.

    Didn't work on you

    Proton is incorporated in Switzerland, it’s unclear what the benefit would be to “appease” Trump.

    Straw man

    So even if Andy Yen was a full on MAGA, he still wouldn’t have autonomy to decide that.

    being a non profit and him owning enough of it to do what he wants are unrelated.

    There is absolutely nothing in the history of Proton that suggests they would be open to backdooring their software.

    https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/

    There is a long track record of choices to protect users’ privacy.

    Tell that french activist they turned logging on for and gave up to the authorities.

    S M 2 Replies Last reply
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    • O [email protected]

      Imagine the complexity of the encryption algo with 100 different custom made backdoors!

      J This user is from outside of this forum
      J This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #60

      That's the secret you give them all the same backdoor.

      O 1 Reply Last reply
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      • S [email protected]

        Sci-fi writing in here I see

        C This user is from outside of this forum
        C This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #61

        I wanted to reply to your points but someone beat me to it.

        Learn to think critically. Close the app for a day, cool off and re-read all of these replies.

        Do you think we would all just dump on something for the fun of it or just to piss you off? This isnt reddit.

        Cmon man, take a second, look around and understand that the taste of boot leather is not very pleasant. Proton is not here for your privacy ... I mean it is, unless you're a french journalist ... or a person of interest for the right people.

        S 1 Reply Last reply
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        • natanox@discuss.tchncs.deN [email protected]

          "Now"? Apps like Signals are constantly under fire. Whitaker already told the whole EU it would just leave if they introduced the "chat control" legislation.

          C This user is from outside of this forum
          C This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #62

          Apps like Signals

          This was about a different app named 'Signal', I think, without the s.

          natanox@discuss.tchncs.deN K 2 Replies Last reply
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          • 4 [email protected]

            Meanwhile, the Swedish Armed Forces recently decided to use Signal for secure communication: https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/aktuellt/2025/02/forsvarsmakten-anvander-appen-signal-for-oppen-kommunikation-med-mobiltelefoner/

            🙄

            C This user is from outside of this forum
            C This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #63

            Half of the original article:

            The Armed Forces, on the other hand, are negative and write in a letter to the government that the proposal cannot be realized "without introducing vulnerabilities and backdoors that can be exploited by third parties", reports SVT.

            So that's covered.

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            • cygnus@lemmy.caC [email protected]

              I'm a bit surprised that the armed forces are openly opposing this, but good for them!

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #64

              I mean beyond everything else, any group actually interested in the safety and security of citizens (so, not politicians or cops anywhere apparently), should be pushing everything to be encrypted everywhere. In the modern digital world anything not properly encrypted is at risk for ate tracks by bad actors.

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              • R [email protected]

                Yeah, I don't get if these are Proton PR bots, or they're just heavily invested in the company and are in denial. They just take that PR, add some flourish then a bunch of unrelated BS.

                D This user is from outside of this forum
                D This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #65

                "It is harder to convince someone they have been tricked than to trick them in the first place" and such.

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                • R [email protected]

                  I'm not familiar with EU law, but wouldn't this set a precidence across the whole EU?

                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #66

                  Not unless turned into EU law, or a lawsuit over it reaches EU court. Individual countries can't change the rules of the union on their own.

                  There's already EU court precedence against mandatory backdoors

                  https://cdt.org/insights/the-european-court-of-human-rights-concludes-encryption-backdoor-mandates-violate-the-right-to-private-life-of-all-users-online/

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                  • R [email protected]

                    Literally the first sentence of the article: "The government wants Signal and Whatsapp to be forced to store messages sent using the apps."

                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #67

                    WireGuard protocol logs very little information by default. There is literally no way to make it log more than it does by default.

                    Even then, Mullvad has no customer information. You're given a customer number, which is intentional.

                    I stand my initial post in that there is very little, if anything, to record on a Mullvad server. If I'm not mistaken, Mullvad recently announced they are running all VPN services through a RAM only setup, therefore, there aren't even any drives to record customer information even if they chose to.

                    L 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • N [email protected]

                      Not unless turned into EU law, or a lawsuit over it reaches EU court. Individual countries can't change the rules of the union on their own.

                      There's already EU court precedence against mandatory backdoors

                      https://cdt.org/insights/the-european-court-of-human-rights-concludes-encryption-backdoor-mandates-violate-the-right-to-private-life-of-all-users-online/

                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #68

                      Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?

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                      • C [email protected]

                        Apps like Signals

                        This was about a different app named 'Signal', I think, without the s.

                        natanox@discuss.tchncs.deN This user is from outside of this forum
                        natanox@discuss.tchncs.deN This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #69

                        Just a typo.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • R [email protected]

                          Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?

                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                          N This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #70

                          https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/types-eu-law_en

                          Each country may still have the equivalent of a constitution, and the majority of EU laws are directives which the country may translate to fit their local law, also there's various negotiated exceptions to EU laws. But the general idea is that the treaties establishing EU are meant to require full cooperation

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • R [email protected]

                            Is there a supremacy clause like what the US has? Like, if the EU court has a ruling, does a member country get to override that?

                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #71

                            The EU in general uses civil law, not common law. Courts in general don't establish precedents, so it does not matter what a court rules beyond that specific case, laws are wrtitten to be super specific, and you generally can't challenge laws in court like in the US.

                            The EU works through a double process of lawmaking.

                            It can create directives that are like how US laws work as they need specific interpretation, except it's national legislatures, not courts doing the interpretation.

                            And there are regulations - like the GDPR - that have to be adapted and enforced verbatim.

                            This is a cornerstone of the ongoing Big Tech dispute, they thought they can forum shop by buying the Irish judiciary, but they can still get indicted, even for the same violation, in any other EU court if that court also has jurisdiction.

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                            • R [email protected]

                              I'm not familiar with EU law, but wouldn't this set a precidence across the whole EU?

                              H This user is from outside of this forum
                              H This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #72

                              There is no such thing as a precedent in EU law. Any court can in general disagree with any other court. Appeals still exist, but they are only valid for that one case.

                              Judges don't make laws here.

                              E 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • D [email protected]

                                And gobbles Trump's knob publicly.

                                They won't need a law to force compliance.

                                H This user is from outside of this forum
                                H This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #73

                                Yeah, to be honest if you need to hide from the government, don't use Proton. Actually, don't use email.

                                Proton is good for hiding from Google and Facebook, and not having a life full of ads.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • M [email protected]

                                  I agree that it would destroy the reason many people use it, but they aren't outlawing Signal specifically. What they are doing is arguably worse, but this isn't an "anti-Signal" action.

                                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #74

                                  Well yeah, they are not attacking Signal the company, just their core busibess model.

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                                  • S [email protected]
                                    • According to Whittaker, the bill requires the encrypted messaging app Signal to install so-called backdoors in the software.
                                    oyzmo@lemmy.worldO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    oyzmo@lemmy.worldO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #75

                                    What about Threema? 🤔

                                    root@lemmy.worldR F E 3 Replies Last reply
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                                    • oyzmo@lemmy.worldO [email protected]

                                      What about Threema? 🤔

                                      root@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                      root@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #76

                                      Good point

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                                      • hsr@lemmy.dbzer0.comH [email protected]

                                        There needs to be a messaging app which provides a backdoor for every government that requests it. Every time some dumbfuck legislator asks for a super-giga-secure-backdoor they promise not to misuse, they should be directed to that app.

                                        T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #77

                                        goatse.cx used to work wonderfully for that.

                                        enfors@lemm.eeE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • D [email protected]

                                          Brainlet questions what possible benefit a Swiss company that sells privacy might receive from cozing up to a fascist state.

                                          Lies about what the CEO said.

                                          Thanks non-profit is anything but a tax status. Hasn't paid enough attention to all the "non-profit" companies switching to for-profit as soon as it's financially convenient.

                                          Doesn't realize that Proton's biggest security vulnerability is Proton the organization.

                                          Fucking lol.

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #78

                                          A long comment that doesn't say anything.

                                          Yes, what possible benefit could a Swiss company that sells privacy might receive from cozing up to a fascist state?

                                          Yes. What? Is Trump going to send them customers? Money directly? What is the benefit. If it is so obvious to you, state it clearly.

                                          One of his direct statements btw

                                          Quoted out of context. Yes, he thinks that Republicans are more likely to fight against big tech. Stupid? Naive? Probably. But it still doesn't mean supporting Republicans in general (or Trump).
                                          BTW, don't take my word for it, he explicitly elaborated that point in a reddit comment.

                                          Thinks non-profit is anything but a tax status.

                                          Imagine lol
                                          Proton is still a for profit company (tax status muh) but it is controlled by a nonprofit, which means that the steering wheel of the nonprofit company is in the hands of an organization with no profit motive, with a solid board.
                                          Now let me hear the mental gymnastic about tax status.

                                          Doesn't realize that Proton's biggest security vulnerability is Proton the organization.

                                          Again a sentence that doesn't mean anything.
                                          You want to explicitly say what this threat model means? Go ahead. Throwing things like this is pointless.

                                          Actual clown shit trying to bait people into the honeypot.

                                          Keep your tinfoil hat, I don't care. I am not promoting even, I am stating some facts about the fact that it seems very unlikely that Proton will backdoor their encryption for no reason but to please Trump.

                                          D 1 Reply Last reply
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