Racism in Germany is the norm not the exception – DW – 03/23/2025
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A lot of words to defend bigotry. The human species can be a lot of awful things if we look to our worst nature. Our major advantage as a species is that we evolve faster culturally than most species can genetically. It makes us highly plastic and adaptable to our circumstances. It also means we don't need to be assholes just because we can be. We can redefine and shape what is means to be an outsider. And, if a human can look at a drawing of a cartoon dog and feel empathy and humanize it, we can definitely manage to not dehumanize other people just because they have different religions and customs. Appealing to tribalism is a bullshit excuse.
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Maybe they were being genuine and not sarcastic. I came out swinging because I was riled up by the first poster to be honest. If they're genuine, then I feel like a bit of a dick. Oops.
I think I would've reacted the same way if I wouldn't have been an outsider.
Rarely do I have positive interactions on here, so my initial reaction is defensive as well with everything that makes it into my inbox.
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Yes. Its observable just by looking at culture and society now versus thousands or even just hundreds or tens of years ago and comparing it to the time it takes for even a subspecies to arise. And, as information exchange speeds up due to technology, culture exchanges even faster and society develops faster.
I didn't say we don't have in groups and out groups (tribalism). I say we have control over what we consider in and out groups. It's not idealism. It's not what the world could be. Its just observable fact. We've literally shifted cultural perception in the last 50 years on all sorts of in and out groups (black and gay people are easy examples.
We didn't shift cultural perception at all. We may have enacted laws, but the people aren't any more or less receptive than they have been. That will take generations. Only thing that happened is that people hid it. Take a good long look at US politics and tell me that gay people and black people are any more accepted than they were...as half the population looks to tear down the institutions which allowed their equality to happen...
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Surely you have a lot of data to back this claim up
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Article talking about racism in Germany.
You : But ppl are racist everywhere!!!
Apparently no one can complain about anything because it's bad everywhere. Guess I should just get use to being called the N-word in Germany because Singaporeans don't like Indians
I'm saying that diversity takes time. I've seen Belgium go through different stages.
My wife's indonesian. You know what she'd be if she married an African guy? Disowned.
The Congolese in Belgium seem pretty wealthy, more wealthy than the Arabs in the same cities.
Perhaps linked to the source of immigration (economic immigrants with work visas) or their culture. Am talking bout Aalst specifically.
I don't have a clue about it at all, just trying to connect dots.
You can keep talking bout racism, will be beneficial for my kid in the future.
But don't have tunnel vision either. There's a lot of mono cultures out there in the world where there would be a lot of resistance to immigration. These countries would have to start from scratch when it comes to diversity. It's not like they'd be instant paradises.
Like china had their scandal with how they treated their minority in an area.
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We didn't shift cultural perception at all. We may have enacted laws, but the people aren't any more or less receptive than they have been. That will take generations. Only thing that happened is that people hid it. Take a good long look at US politics and tell me that gay people and black people are any more accepted than they were...as half the population looks to tear down the institutions which allowed their equality to happen...
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Surely you have a lot of data to back this claim up
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That’s a 12 year old paywalled map. I don’t see any evidence for their claim and I recommend reading this carefully: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Germany
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Religions are ideas. Ideas dont have rights. Humans have. You are free to criticise ideas & religions. They dont have rights. Criticising a religion is not bigotry.
we can definitely manage to not dehumanize other people just because they have different religions and customs. Appealing to tribalism is a bullshit excuse.
Why was your reaction to that to defend "criticising religion"? If this is mixed together for you, then it seems your idea of "criticising religion" indeed contains bigotry and can serve to dehumanize people.
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Can you tell me some areas in the world that are more multi-cultural and less racist than western Europe?
For example, Singaporeans are wilding about Indians coming to their country for economic reasons. Working day and night, outcompeting locals. Bringing in more Indians.
I've been outside of Europe, you know what I saw? A lot of mono cultures such as Europe in the 1900s.
You are right, it's true everywhere. It's human nature to be wary of people you don't understand. But, for some things, you'd expect countries that are a lot further ahead in progressivism to be "nicer".
Though I suppose that's very difficult to quantitatively measure - how progressive someone is. How more accepting they are than other countries.
But there's also room for letting people air out their issues without being told that "everyone is like this, stop whining". That's literally what the Russian goverment does, they implicitly tell their populace that democracy doesn't work and that this is the best deal they'll ever get.
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You are right, it's true everywhere. It's human nature to be wary of people you don't understand. But, for some things, you'd expect countries that are a lot further ahead in progressivism to be "nicer".
Though I suppose that's very difficult to quantitatively measure - how progressive someone is. How more accepting they are than other countries.
But there's also room for letting people air out their issues without being told that "everyone is like this, stop whining". That's literally what the Russian goverment does, they implicitly tell their populace that democracy doesn't work and that this is the best deal they'll ever get.
Ah it can always be better. Fun fact, 80% of Congolese cobalt is owned by Chinese companies.
Strong economies trade with weak economies. Ends up in a win win situation. China only became a strong economy through the trade with priorly developed economies.
So I'm going to ignore that argument a bit. Worst thing we could do for "global south" would be to stop trading with them. It'd be called sanctioning them.
Now, eh, we got our issues to tackle in Europe. But as someone who was born in 1995, I have seen how my society has transformed. Brussels in the 90s compared to today is day and night in terms of diversity.
Now you can always say like "there's racism!!! This is a shit hole to live in!!!"
But then.. come on, it's not that bad. I know 20% of Europe is voting anti immigration political parties. But these are usually the less educated folks.
Get educated, you won't even be in contact with them.
My wife's pregnant. Our kid will be indonesian-Belgian in ethnicity (or Chinese/Japanese whatever, she keeps being called Chinese in her own country lol)
So our kid will grow up in bit of a racist environment.
Well, we have the privilege to live anywhere in the world that we want. My wife prefers Belgium.
I'll trust her judgement.
We can always improve, but we live in a pretty good place.
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Religions are ideas. Ideas dont have rights. Humans have. You are free to criticise ideas & religions. They dont have rights. Criticising a religion is not bigotry.
Criticizing people simply for holding a religious belief, so long ad those beliefs do not directly infringe on others (paradox of tolerance blah blah), is bigotry. Using mental gymnastic to say that the people themselves are not being criticized or being treated poorly is disingenuous.
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United America States format
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As a german citizen with an immigrant background from Eastern Europe, I can confirm this. It's bad enough for a white looking, german passing eastern european. My friends from the Middle East or Africa have had a much, much worse experience than I ever will. Hell, I was walking down the street with my black friend once and some guys in their early twenties decided it'd be funny to scream the N word at us out of their car while also telling us to "go back where we came from".
Or another interesting story, I was at McDonalds the day right after the Hamas attack on Israel happened. Apparently the cashier thought it'd be acceptable to tell the muslim woman (that was obviously just a student or a tourist coming from abroad cause she had a huge suitcase with her with those airline tags on it) in front of me that she should learn german or don't come here, then said shit like "only thing you muslims know to do is behead people" and gestured with his hand at his neck the movement of cutting someone's head off. I was the only one to intervene and tell him it's not okay. All the pasty ass german boomers behind me just stayed in line and waited for their shitty burgers to arrive, literally no words of condemnation.
As an American I'm sometimes caught off guard by European racism. Ethno-nationalism makes zero sense here - everyone's an immigrant, except for the massively opressed indigenous Indians. I can see how it could make a kind of sense in a country that's had one ethic group for centuries, but given his many wars and how much migration has happened over the last 1,000 years in Europe such attitudes can be dubious in places. Even still, it's stupid, denying the humanity of people who are just trying to get by like everyone else.
The way people are racist is somewhat different, sure to different cultures and histories. I wonder how much American racism y'all have imported; we have rather different histories with different ethnicities than y'all have. Even different parts of America have different kinds and degrees of racism from each other. It's a big fucking country.
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Criticizing people simply for holding a religious belief, so long ad those beliefs do not directly infringe on others (paradox of tolerance blah blah), is bigotry. Using mental gymnastic to say that the people themselves are not being criticized or being treated poorly is disingenuous.
Yes of course, but Islamic beliefs directly infringe on others.
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Yes of course, but Islamic beliefs directly infringe on others.
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It is incredibly easy to pick out the Germans on Lemmy. After two back and forths they start screaming racist stuff about brown people.
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It is incredibly easy to pick out the Germans on Lemmy. After two back and forths they start screaming racist stuff about brown people.
You confuse them with US Americans.
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You confuse them with US Americans.
Liberal Americans (the folks on Lemmy) tend to be held back with racism. They only show it in subtle racist double standards.
In Germany being a Liberal means you want free healthcare but you also really hate brown people.
