'Admit you're Hamas or we'll send a drone to kill your family'
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Oh youre not wrong but sadam wasn’t in a vacuum either is my broader point. These personalities have always existed in every time period in human history. It wasn’t until the cognitive revolution of he 50s did we start to develop archetypes of personalities and on a broader macro sense the cognitive behaviors of societies as a whole.
Saddam quickly went from ruling by popular support to ruling by scaring the shit out of any opposition.
Netanyahu and other Fascists in Israel still enjoy comfortable majority support in Israel. Even if people protest against Netanyahu, they are largely still in favor of ethnical cleansing and genocide against the Palestinians. Most people in Iraq didn't need reeducation when Saddam was toppled. The vast majority of Israelis need a reeducation and be confronted with their crimes at large and have hundreds of thousands of their war criminals permanently locked away in order to cure the Fascism that has deep roots in their society now. It will take decades to safe them from who they have chosen to become.
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I think you’re getting into dangerous territory with that thinking. People are not a monolith, even when an outspoken and visible portion of the population are monsters. Secondly, you say “Nazi germany has no right to exist,” but Germany does. Painting with that broad a brush and speaking in such absolutes opens the door to horrible acts. Because the zionists speak the exact same way about Palestine. That’s where that thinking and language can lead you.
Germany does not have the right to exist. The German people have a right to self determination, like any people in the world does. This right is not tied to any specific state.
It is also completely absurd to define such rights to a specific state. Any specific state needs a specific government, a specific territory and a specific people. The only thing that carried over from the Nazi era was the people. A different government was formed on a very different territory. If you claim "Germany has a right to exist" in connection with the Nazi Reich, that Germany would have to include large swaths of what is todays Poland and Czech Republic.
Meanwhile there was no Israel in 1947. There was no Israeli people in 1947. The entire people is a construct, that only started to become a reality through 80 years of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinian people. Now that they are a people is a reality. That this people thus has the right to form a fascist state and deny the rights to the people who they have uprooted is nonsense.
If the US was to invade Canada, drive the Canadians north of the arctic circle and then claim this is US-Canada now because the filled it with millions of their own settlers, that does not create a "right to exist" for US-Canada.
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oskar schindler existed, so it's bad to say we should kill nazis!
nah. these fuckers will not stop killing until they're dead. there's nothing else to them but killing. they are monsters.
fascists accuse their enemies of their own crimes, and I really hate libs buying into it like this.
It's unclassy to reinterpretively paraphrase someone with a block quote like that.
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there's plenty of nuance, and it's all fractal horrors of zio atrocities. there can be no mercy for these inhuman monsters. not if you want a future.
The Palestine-Israel conflict is famous for people assuming there is a clear solution, and then later admitting they were wrong.
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Have you tried? Your fantasy depiction of unfortunate misguided Nazis does not meet up with reality.
You can't dismiss someone as a Nazi in this political climate. That's like turning your back on a leaky pipe.
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Saddam quickly went from ruling by popular support to ruling by scaring the shit out of any opposition.
Netanyahu and other Fascists in Israel still enjoy comfortable majority support in Israel. Even if people protest against Netanyahu, they are largely still in favor of ethnical cleansing and genocide against the Palestinians. Most people in Iraq didn't need reeducation when Saddam was toppled. The vast majority of Israelis need a reeducation and be confronted with their crimes at large and have hundreds of thousands of their war criminals permanently locked away in order to cure the Fascism that has deep roots in their society now. It will take decades to safe them from who they have chosen to become.
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their children sing songs about exterminating the inferior races. if there aren't enough palestinians around to reclaim it, that shit hole needs to be glass.
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American Dr Mark Perlmutter, who has volunteered in Gaza, says one of his Palestinian colleagues was taken by Israeli occupation forces, had his fingers shattered and was told to confess to being a member of Hamas or have his wife gang raped in front of him.
Soldiers 'crushed' his fingers, Perlmutter explains, adding that they also threatened to 'send a drone to your bedroom window and incinerate your children.' The doctor did not confess and spent 11 months being tortured in Israeli detention.
We are all dirt to these people.
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I'm always really surprised more people don't post this stuff in conservative dominated spaces.
They're not monsters. Aside from the trolls and bots that are paid to try to sway them to be. Also the under 20 year olds that are edge Lords.
I think it's legit to get discussions and to challenge their core beliefs honestly. I do it. Some get through, sometimes I get banned. But I'm surprised more people don't go out and do similar
It's worth a shot, but by and large the more reasonable conservatives are generally no where near those communities. Certainly the moderation of those communities are fanatic about Trump. The conservatives that you might have hoped to call Trump on his stuff have calculated that they can't afford to challenge Trump even if they personally think he is in the wrong. The ones that have calculated otherwise have been pushed out of the conservative community.
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The Palestine-Israel conflict is famous for people assuming there is a clear solution, and then later admitting they were wrong.
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Even the allies didn't deny Germany had a right to exist just its then leadership and most individually culpable
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It's hard to do with online randos whose face you can't see. You need extra rules to ensure civility and fact-based constructive reasoning. And even then there will be the odd vatnik agitator throwing potential constructive debate in the toilet.
It's a popularity contest. Don't need many rules beyond being funny. That's the language. Anything else, you're wasting your breath. Content is king. It's how all our parents and grandmothers learned about COVID and everything else since then. They became addicted to memes
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It's worth a shot, but by and large the more reasonable conservatives are generally no where near those communities. Certainly the moderation of those communities are fanatic about Trump. The conservatives that you might have hoped to call Trump on his stuff have calculated that they can't afford to challenge Trump even if they personally think he is in the wrong. The ones that have calculated otherwise have been pushed out of the conservative community.
Keep in mind only a very small percentage of users post or write comments. Like less then 10%. And they're nuts. We're nuts for posting and commenting into the ether. But we're even crazier for doing it in a place where everyone just agrees.
You're not dealing with the person you're commenting to. It's about the 90% of others reading it.
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Germany does not have the right to exist. The German people have a right to self determination, like any people in the world does. This right is not tied to any specific state.
It is also completely absurd to define such rights to a specific state. Any specific state needs a specific government, a specific territory and a specific people. The only thing that carried over from the Nazi era was the people. A different government was formed on a very different territory. If you claim "Germany has a right to exist" in connection with the Nazi Reich, that Germany would have to include large swaths of what is todays Poland and Czech Republic.
Meanwhile there was no Israel in 1947. There was no Israeli people in 1947. The entire people is a construct, that only started to become a reality through 80 years of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinian people. Now that they are a people is a reality. That this people thus has the right to form a fascist state and deny the rights to the people who they have uprooted is nonsense.
If the US was to invade Canada, drive the Canadians north of the arctic circle and then claim this is US-Canada now because the filled it with millions of their own settlers, that does not create a "right to exist" for US-Canada.
Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
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Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
while said country does, in fact, exist
Irrelevant in whether or not it has the right to do so
straight up genocidal ground
Don't be an idiot, it's nowhere near the same thing
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I do. I'm saying I'm surprised I don't see more. It happens with spaces on the left all the time too.
It's crazy how in the last ten years we have allowed moderation to drive us into separate corners. A time out was maybe a good idea. But we should still be working to merge back into a single Internet.
And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit. That's the same bullshit that made MAGA go off the rails.
I know on Reddit that r/conservative had a bit of a meltdown because their users started having honest takes like "people should be held accountable for Intel leak"
They have this term "my fellow conservatives" that was clearly bots trying to suppress anyone from voicing dissent. Surprisingly lots of down votes for it. Just saying maybe there's a middle ground more than people think.
And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit
Nah. They're sitting at the Nazi table, until they willingly walk away: they're Nazis. If they don't like hearing it they can off themselves or leave the Nazi table, either one is fine
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And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit
Nah. They're sitting at the Nazi table, until they willingly walk away: they're Nazis. If they don't like hearing it they can off themselves or leave the Nazi table, either one is fine
They can't really leave the nazi table if there isn't a Nazi table any more than you can't leave the table of Maoist. Ukraine is a great example with Azov. Are Ukrainians fighting for their country Nazis because of the Azov brigade?
How do you parse the logic? It seems problematic to decide that a vast majority of a population are something based off a minority within it.
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Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
The state does exist. The state is inherently built on crimes. Saying this state must cease to exist does not mean that the people should cease to exist.
Again taking Nazi Germany as an example. The German Reich ceased to exist. There is no Führer, no Reichschancellor, Reichsgovernment... Incidently there is a movement called "Reichsbürger" (citizens of the Reich) that proclaim the Federal Republic of Germany is a company and not a sovereign nation, so instead they claim the Reich to still exist. But it does not.
There was no genocide against Germans to make the Reich cease to exist and while there were ample use of strategies that by todays standards are war crimes against the Reich, the responsibility for starting the war laid with the Germans.
If we apply this to the state of Israel. Israel started to ethnically cleanse the area. Israel is inherently an Apartheid regime and the current state would never obey by international law, end the illegal occupation, give back stolen land, recompense the victims, punish the criminals and give equal rights to Palestinians living inside the internationally recognized borders of the state of Israel. The Israeli constitution itself says that Israel is a Jewish ethnostate, thus by the constitution Israel is a racist and criminal state in violation of international law.
You cannot reform this state like you couldn't reform the German Reich. The state and all of its institutions need to be rebuild from the ground up. And then in a way that grants equal rights and justice for all living between the river and the sea.
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You can't dismiss someone as a Nazi in this political climate. That's like turning your back on a leaky pipe.
On the contrary, associating with the Nazi party that is actively disappearing innocent people off the street is turning your back on liberty and justice.
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It's unclassy to reinterpretively paraphrase someone with a block quote like that.
