Do retro handhelds have untapped potential for privacy and security?
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KitKat (Android 4), If only. I still have an Archos 43 media player that runs Android 2.3.
Amazing.
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I keep thinking about this.
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Most retro handhelds do not have cellular network chips, gps, or even built it microphones or cameras in many cases. But many do still support wifi and Bluetooth.
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The vast majority of them do support either Linux, Android, or both. This is the area that needs the most work, since the Linux distros on these devices are so stripped down that they can't do much more than run emulators and a few bespoke game engine compilations. And for the Android-supporting devices, there would be a need to build more privacy-respecting roms. But that's the thing - many of these devices openly support that, it's just not something the communities have gotten around to creating.
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While this would become less useful with popularity, this kind of approach would be a form of steganography. If you're in an extreme situation where you or your belongings are being searched, how many people are going to suspect that the little Retroid Pocket gaming handheld is even something you can or might be storing your private info on?
My laptop only has wifi and Bluetooth with no microphone or camera. What exactly are you referring to?
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I keep thinking about this.
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Most retro handhelds do not have cellular network chips, gps, or even built it microphones or cameras in many cases. But many do still support wifi and Bluetooth.
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The vast majority of them do support either Linux, Android, or both. This is the area that needs the most work, since the Linux distros on these devices are so stripped down that they can't do much more than run emulators and a few bespoke game engine compilations. And for the Android-supporting devices, there would be a need to build more privacy-respecting roms. But that's the thing - many of these devices openly support that, it's just not something the communities have gotten around to creating.
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While this would become less useful with popularity, this kind of approach would be a form of steganography. If you're in an extreme situation where you or your belongings are being searched, how many people are going to suspect that the little Retroid Pocket gaming handheld is even something you can or might be storing your private info on?
My first thoughts were the DS's pictochat or maybe PSP. No clue about how to use them like this, I doubt "modern" tools exist (yet). But it's creative, interesting, and I like the needless extra steps...so I support it
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My first thoughts were the DS's pictochat or maybe PSP. No clue about how to use them like this, I doubt "modern" tools exist (yet). But it's creative, interesting, and I like the needless extra steps...so I support it
While a person probably could spin up a very hacky solution on a DS or PSP, there's really no need to do anything so painful. I've updated the post to go a bit more into detail about this.
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My laptop only has wifi and Bluetooth with no microphone or camera. What exactly are you referring to?
I've updated the post with relevant links and info. My first thought here is that your laptop is not pocketable, and if you were ever in a search and seizure situation, your laptop would be more likely to be one of the first things confiscated.
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The main issues I can see:
- lack of secure instant communication, like Signal
- missing secure wi-fi protocols
- no TLS >= 1.0 support
- expired root certificates
- backdoors, established digital forensic tools
- credentials stored in RAM
If somehow you can install an SSH v2 client, with 2FA login - will be somehow useful.
My fast research, a PSP with custom firmware, and PSPSSH SSH client (not sure if it supports current ciphers).
I've updated the post in response to yours and other comments. No need to rely on poor outdated solutions. Some of these devices, like the Retroid Pocket 5, almost are Android phones just with built in gaming inputs and no cellular chip. I can probably install Signal on it right now if I wanted to, though as it currently is, I would not trust Retroid as a company enough to rely on their firmware.
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Define "retro", because no Game Boy supports Android or Linux that I know of. Nor even a DS.
Most retro handhelds do not have cellular network chips, gps, or even built it microphones or cameras
All I'm hearing here is that they're not useful for much. Not even audio calls if there's no microphone. I'm not sure what you'd use them for.
A microphone can easily be added with headphones or earbuds. I've updated the post to include relevant info.
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I think OP is referencing new "retro" handhelds that run Android (although I bet a lot run KitKat or something insane, so no modern encryption/https)
The Retroid Pocket 5 runs Android 13 and I could probably install Signal (or any other Android e2e messaging apps) on it right now. There are also other devices with similar specs and software.
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The Retroid Pocket 5 runs Android 13 and I could probably install Signal (or any other Android e2e messaging apps) on it right now. There are also other devices with similar specs and software.
Oh, there are sooo many options now, I'm sure many gaming handhelds are 100% up to date Pixel-level. I was just saying as per existing inventory in the world, if you just pick up something random... it gonna have KitKat potentially...
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A microphone can easily be added with headphones or earbuds. I've updated the post to include relevant info.
Okay, those devices are an entirely different category. If your goal is a full desktop environment, though, that's completely the wrong thing to look at. They don't have desktop input controls. The most widely supported device would probably be a Steam Deck or similar.
But, if your threat model is "being searched', it depends on who is doing the searching. NSA? They're going to pick you apart lest they have another Snowden. Immigration/customs? They're going to ask you to turn it on and show it's just a game console.
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Okay, those devices are an entirely different category. If your goal is a full desktop environment, though, that's completely the wrong thing to look at. They don't have desktop input controls. The most widely supported device would probably be a Steam Deck or similar.
But, if your threat model is "being searched', it depends on who is doing the searching. NSA? They're going to pick you apart lest they have another Snowden. Immigration/customs? They're going to ask you to turn it on and show it's just a game console.
An increasing number of these devices have touchscreens, so Phosh could work quite well. And for me it's more about how these devices are leaving a lot of potential functionality off the table. When hundreds of thousands or more people are all using something, you can never predict all the different use-cases they're going to have. So it's strange to me that these frontend developers are putting so much effort into turning them into dumb single use appliances, when the entire world of Linux software can just as easily be made available.
But yeah I was thinking about a hypothetical search scenario. I don't see it being useful for anything more than average local-level forces. Some of them support dual-booting, so those stripped down emulation frontends could come in handy in that case. Have one distro, ideally complete with full disk encryption. Then have another that actually is for the games. If somebody turns the display on and sees it demand a password, they'll demand further investigation. So they would need to be met with an open menu with an obvious, full list of games ready to play, with no indications there is anything else to search into.
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An increasing number of these devices have touchscreens, so Phosh could work quite well. And for me it's more about how these devices are leaving a lot of potential functionality off the table. When hundreds of thousands or more people are all using something, you can never predict all the different use-cases they're going to have. So it's strange to me that these frontend developers are putting so much effort into turning them into dumb single use appliances, when the entire world of Linux software can just as easily be made available.
But yeah I was thinking about a hypothetical search scenario. I don't see it being useful for anything more than average local-level forces. Some of them support dual-booting, so those stripped down emulation frontends could come in handy in that case. Have one distro, ideally complete with full disk encryption. Then have another that actually is for the games. If somebody turns the display on and sees it demand a password, they'll demand further investigation. So they would need to be met with an open menu with an obvious, full list of games ready to play, with no indications there is anything else to search into.
A full desktop with touchscreen costs money for extra hardware, and developer salary to port and test the software. Selling more specialized devices means you can use less powerful hardware, an embedded(ish) OS like Android, and only run your one program. That's why the thing you're looking for doesn't exist, it just doesn't make sense as a product outside your one very specific use case.
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A full desktop with touchscreen costs money for extra hardware, and developer salary to port and test the software. Selling more specialized devices means you can use less powerful hardware, an embedded(ish) OS like Android, and only run your one program. That's why the thing you're looking for doesn't exist, it just doesn't make sense as a product outside your one very specific use case.
No, that's really not how this ecosystem works. I'll give an example based on the Retroid Pocket 5, just because that's what I own and am familiar with. The company ships it with Android 13 by default. So this already has a full desktop environment, full suite of available app stores - everything that any other Android device can do, plus built in game input. No extra hardware needed. I can outright install Signal, Briar, Matrix, any of those kinds of things on it right now. Retroid never did any testing or development for that use case, it's just what happens when a device has a full, open Android experience from all of the development that has gone into Android and apps over the years.
However, they also chose to use a chipset that has support for Linux as well. At least two projects have already ported their variants of Linux to the RP5 - Rocknix and Batocera. While it's true that porting, testing, fixing, and maintaining operating systems has a labor cost, you're trying to apply standard business logic to something that doesn't operate that way. Batocera accepts donations, and Rocknix doesn't even accept any financial compensation. These are volunteer projects, labors of love. They are not subject to capitalistic incentives, and nor is it entirely accurate to call open-source projects like these "products." The processes involved are more organic, more democratized. It's a commons, and anyone can get involved.
The reasons they're designed the way they are is because that's what fits their motivations and project goals. It's the appliance model - they want the device to do one thing, and do it well - to play games, particularly retro games. So they put in only enough software to make that happen, and then try to make it as much of a polished experience as possible.
I am only trying to point out that the only thing getting in the way of more general purpose systems being available to these devices pretty much comes down to whether more people feel like trying to compile them.
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