What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?
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I can think of a good reason but i'm not sure whether you're willing to buy into it.
people naturally don't think of themselves as individuals. people think of themselves as a group/society.
People recognize that under a republican US government, they're significantly more likely to go to mars and have prosperous offspring. while if they're stuck on earth, a recession and decline is waiting for them. they can't verbalize it and probably aren't even rationally aware of it, but i guess they can feel it with their heart.
of course lots of you folks are gonna immediately chime in and say "nooo i saw a youtube video that explained that it's impossible to live on mars", and honestly, you should reconsider why you're so eager to deny a topic that you've clearly not put in as much effort to think about than the people who actually do care about this project. and also, assuming it does work out; what will you do then? be ashamed of your wrong prediction? because if you're not, that means you don't stand to your prediction, and therefore the prediction is worthless. i'm not sure whether i was too direct about this and somebody perceived it as rude, but i'm tired of this feeling of being stuck. we need to think long-term again.
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Is this mars thing meant to be an analogy or do you mean people literally think they will have a better life colonizing mars?
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In the spirit of my post, I'm glad you see a disparity in the term cultural appropriation like I do.
In the spirit of clarifying what I mean, cultural appropriation is using elements of another culture. What you described is exploitative, is very serious, and not what I'm referring to.
But I appreciate your input all the same.
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Like, all my friends are leftists. When we talk about politics, they sound like leftists, they say leftist things, and espouse leftist values. My friends are all leftists because my friends' friends are leftists and I make friends with my friends' friends.
Why would you think this would be in some way representative? It's just your friend network.
Regarding "settler," I think it's a motte-and-bailey tactic you're using. The motte -- the easily defensible position -- is that settler refers to people who are bigoted. The bailey -- the hard to defend position, but which is easily equivocated for the motte -- is that it refers to any non-indigenous person. [...]
You're wrong in your attempt to identify a fallacy and are doing your own one at the same time (straw man). I have explained at least twice that being a settler is a psychology derived from settler colonialism. Someone else suggested that you read Sakai. Have you done so before trying to contradict and lecture? Have you asked questions about a topic that is clearly new to you?
You keep belaboring this straw man that it means anyone non-indigenous. I think I was pretty clear on this, so can you explain why you are pretending otherwise?
I don't deny that it's a useful verbal weapon against bigots. I would merely like it to be well-understood that a verbal weapon is what it is intended to be.
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
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But only in a kind of theoretical sense. They think the status quo is best for everyone, but it’s really only best for them.
You'll have to elaborate/defend that statement. I think you're just imposing your own perspective/worldview without facts in evidence.
What is a more centrist sentiment than “our system may not be perfect, but it’s the best there is”?
That would be said by Leftists about a Leftist-bias system, or Rightists about a Rightist-bias system. What you described is not just in the domain of the Centrist. There are many "systems" that groups of humans gather around, and each system may look very different from other systems.
See Dr. King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail” for an eloquent condemnation of “moderates”.
I have not read this, so apologies if I get this wrong, but I will judge this sentence based on the overall message of your comment reply.
Being a moderate does not mean settling for whatever no matter what, no matter how harmful it is. Its about trying to have a consensus that most/all can live with, in how we run our society and how we act towards each other.
For example, if everybody agreed on Leftism, then should the middle of the Leftism population be condemmed (as they would now be the Centrists of Leftism)? Or Centrists of Rightism?
If human history teaches us anything, governing from the fridge/edges never works out well for everybody else.
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I was most curious to see answers to this section.
Is consciousness different from the ability to experience? If they are different what separates them, and why is consciousness the one that gets moral weight? If they are the same then how do you count feelings? Is it measured in real time or felt time? Do psychedelics that slow time make a person more morally valuable in that moment? If it is real time, then why can you disregard felt time?
I have a few answers I can kinda infer:
You likely think consciousness and the ability to experience are the same. You measure those feelings in real time so 1 year is the same for any organism.More importantly onto the other axis:
Did you mean derivative of their experiences so far? (I assume by time) That would give experience rate. Integral by time would get the total. I think you wanted to end with rate*QALYs = moral value. The big question for me is: how do you personally estimate something's experience rate?Given your previous hierarchy of humans near the top and neurons not making the cut, I assume you belive space has fundamental building blocks that can't be made smaller. Therefore it is possible to compare the amount of possible interaction in each system.
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I am very very very left wing, but
Everytime I see someone say this I know without a shadow of a doubt that they're a centrist liberal.
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Why would you think this would be in some way representative? It’s just your friend network.
I think it's representative of my friend network. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were asking. This was a response to "how many leftists do you know?"
No I have not read Sakai yet. This topic is not new to me, I just disagree with you. But very well, I am glad that we have reached the mutual agreement that it is not an appropriate word for non-indigenous people in general, which was my original point that you responded to:
Reading this reminded me about another unpopular opinion: I think “settler” and “colonizer” are poor terms for non-indigenous people broadly.
As I see it, it turns out we both agree. I misunderstood your initial response to that statement as one that was intending to be a counterargument. So, sorry -- I really didn't mean to straw man you; I legitimately misunderstood what your point was.
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You aren't exactly wrong in your first two quote-responses, I will give you that. "The Left" commonly answers the second with an idea called 'eternal revolution'. The idea being that we cannot stop improving, or become so lazy in our ways that we begin to ossify into a form over function society.
I urge you to read the letter. It will raise your consciousness a hundred times more than any conversation you'll have on Lemmy today.
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Absolutely not.
Alas, I am but a blue collar shmuck without the patience to slog through theory nor the oratory skills to convincingly pass on what theory others share.
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I urge you to read the letter. It will raise your consciousness a hundred times more than any conversation you’ll have on Lemmy today.
I'll take a look.
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You measure those feelings in real time so 1 year is the same for any organism.
Well, I said "integral" in the vague gesture that things can have a greater or lesser amount of experience in a given amount of time. I suppose we are looking at different x axes?
I don't know how to estimate something's experience rate, but my intuition is that every creature whose lifespan is at least one year and is visible to the naked eye has about within a factor of an order of magnitude or two the same experience rate. I think children have a greater experience rate than adults because everything is new to them; as a result, someone's maximal moral value is biased toward the earlier end of their life, like their 20s or 30s.
I still don’t know why brains are different from a steel beam
This is all presupposing that consciousness exists at all. If not, then everything's moral value is 0. If it does, then I feel confident that steel beams don't have consciousness.
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I figured your objection to the term "cultural appropriation" is that people use it to refer to exploitative things as well as what I view as innocent things like a professional dancer who is white dancing to an anime song or something. That's why I proposed a new term, to help differentiate these things.
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No I'm not, I'm just not assuming immigrants have 0 buying power, which your post implicitly was, yes supply increases but demand also increases. Beyond that you get into the realms of having to do empirical research (which is hard).
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Only when there's no professional playing a role. A self-help group with professional oversight is great.
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Just so. The periphery of the parks may be visited- a shared border between worlds where the most intrepid of both may briefly meet, but just as bears and raccoons are driven out of suburbs, so too should people be driven from the deeper parks.
As for the sanctity of life, it's more of a balancing in my eyes. No life should be valued so as to cause undue stress to survivors. But I suppose my rather callous attitude is anathema to most.
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Dang that last one is the most interesting to me. Also sorry for getting anal about the axis. I trust you knew what you were saying.
This is all presupposing that consciousness exists at all. If not, then everything's moral value is 0. If it does, then I feel confident that steel beams don't have consciousness.
So there is a moral hierarchy but you regard its source as only possibly existing and extremely nebulous. Given that foundation why do you stand by the validity of the hierarchy, and especially why do you say it is moral to do so?
Also I imagine that your difference in how you see the steel beam vs a brain is based on how much communication you've understood from each. Do you think our ability to understand something or someone is a reasonable way to build a moral framework? I think there are many pit falls to that approach personally, but I get its intuitive appeal.
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For what it's worth, the far left (internationally) is traditionally pro-gun. I wouldn't know what positions are about any citizen and any gun, but I wouldn't be shocked either to hear a socialist advocate for it.
[...] The whole proletariat [i.e. worker class] must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary. The destruction of the bourgeois [i.e. owner class] democrats’ influence over the workers, and the enforcement of conditions which will compromise the rule of bourgeois democracy, which is for the moment inevitable, and make it as difficult as possible – these are the main points which the proletariat and therefore the League must keep in mind during and after the approaching uprising.
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The reason that I stand by the moral hierarchy despite the possibility that it doesn't exist at all is that I can only reason about morality under the assumption that consciousness exists. I don't know how to cause pain to a non-conscious being.
To give an analogy: suppose you find out that next year there's a 50% chance that the earth will be obliterated by some cosmic event -- is this a reason to stop caring about global warming? No, because in the event that the earth is spared, we still need to solve global warming.It is nebulous, but everything is nebulous at first until we learn more. I'm just trying to separate things that seem like pretty safe bets from things I'm less sure about. Steel beams not having consciousness seems like a safe bet. If it turns out that consciousness exists and works really really weirdly and steel beams do have consciousness, there's still no particularly good reason to believe that anything I could do to a steel beam matters to it, seeing as it lacks pain receptors.
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Leftism is unpopular by definition
This really depends how you define "leftism".
If you mean 'whichever side of politics is left of the population's center' then sure, it can't be a majority.
If you mean 'whichever side of politics is left of the political center' then that doesn't imply it's unpopular, and there's direct electoral evidence of 'left' parties achieving a majority government.
If you mean socialism and communism, they certainly aren't unpopular by definition. If anything, their definition makes them a mass movement of the proletariat, the vast majority of a post-industrial society.
