Windows doesn't "just work"
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Have you tried anything not Debian based?
Well, a very long time ago, I tried plenty of distributions on old hardware and that worked enough, so I could at least boot. But yeah, older hardware was always easier for Linux.
At some point I switched to the ones, which are most likely to succeed. Ubuntu is the biggest one out there and should work the best, with the most support and acceptance across the globe.
If not even Ubuntu works on those devices, then what will work, out of the box?
Besides, Ubuntu has already diverted enough from Debian, that I wouldn't really put them in the same basket, at all, anymore...
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Everything Debian based is an absolute clusterfuck in my experience. I mainly use Fedora or Arch, never had a problem with them.
Every single time I've tried using anything Debian based it's been a shitshow. Maybe that's the source of your issues. -
I pity you. I can think of perhaps 2 people I've ever known that I hate. You hate someone who irritates you on social media. You must live a sad, lonely little life.
Thank you for your pity, I shall bask in your magnanimity henceforth, oh superior one. Thou hast no equal on this space rock.
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You don’t have to get rid of all the stuff, it doesn’t break the system like missing sounds or whatnot. Some of its even helpful like weather and news. Plus it isn’t that hard to make a Microsoft account, don’t you need one anyway for Minecraft? And since when do you need drivers for an SSD, don’t those usually work out of the box?
Yep exactly, since when do we need a driver for the nvme controller
at least on Linux it works out of the box.
Apps on windows do break the system to some extent by using resources. As a developer I think that KISS is a paramount principle and waste is bad. Account = waste, unneeded 3d viewer = waste, notepad with subscription ad = uber waste. -
This isn't a Windows issue - this is an Office issue
Oh, don't get me started on Windows issues. Lol. But the only reason we use Windows at work is for Office, otherwise Tue CAD software has a Linux version yet runs better.
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Historically, yeah. Nowadays (as in the last 2-3 years) I don't really see many issues. It's fairly solid in my experience.
And let's be honest, Windows is a nightmare as well on many laptops. If you wipe them and start from scratch, there is a non zero chance that you'll have to source like half the drivers manually.
To get to a working state you're very likely to be fine. They're all using Intel wifi and some elan touchpad, so the basics work well enough to bootstrap up to your vendors website.
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As somebody who works in IT at a Windows-only environment, I know exactly what you mean.
I have to fight with Windows on a weekly basis. Driver issues, firmware issues, software crashes/lockups, performance issues, etc etc.
Just this week, I have two users experiencing issues with their monitors. Identical enterprise grade laptops, identical drivers, identical docking stations, all totally up to date on Windows 11. Their old Windows 10 computers worked fine. Still trying to figure out what's wrong.
The Windows 24H2 update broke my Bluetooth audio, the sound is completely messed up and makes the system lag a bit. Uninstalled the update, Bluetooth works. The update automatically installed itself again after a few weeks and broke it again but I can no longer uninstall it for some reason.
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The Windows 24H2 update broke my Bluetooth audio, the sound is completely messed up and makes the system lag a bit. Uninstalled the update, Bluetooth works. The update automatically installed itself again after a few weeks and broke it again but I can no longer uninstall it for some reason.
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To get to a working state you're very likely to be fine. They're all using Intel wifi and some elan touchpad, so the basics work well enough to bootstrap up to your vendors website.
The kind of people who would install Linux on their PC are the same people who'll reinstall Windows to remove all the bloat manufacturers put on their laptops by default.
Whether or not the basics work well enough to go scavenge for drivers is irrelevant. The fact that I have to do it means it's no better than modern Linux in that regard. It'll boot and in 90% of cases it'll just work, when it doesn't you'll need to install some drivers.
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Well, a very long time ago, I tried plenty of distributions on old hardware and that worked enough, so I could at least boot. But yeah, older hardware was always easier for Linux.
At some point I switched to the ones, which are most likely to succeed. Ubuntu is the biggest one out there and should work the best, with the most support and acceptance across the globe.
If not even Ubuntu works on those devices, then what will work, out of the box?
Besides, Ubuntu has already diverted enough from Debian, that I wouldn't really put them in the same basket, at all, anymore...
I've found it to be just the opposite. I've had so many more issues on Ubuntu and Debian derivatives than any other distro out there. Both in terms of hardware support and stability, ironically.
Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better, otherwise Windows would be good.
aptis atrocious and will nuke your system every once in a while if you're not careful when installing even the most trivial packages.- Snaps are objectively worse than any other packaging format.
- The software is never up to date and you have to go scavenge for drivers and updated kernels otherwise stuff is just broken.
There are much greener pastures out there, even if a little more niche.
Arch if for tinkerers, no doubt, but Fedora is just as simple to use as Ubuntu. The support is great since it's backed by Red Hat and has a sizeable following. I never had issues finding what I was looking for. The only caveat is that it's for newer hardware; not cutting edge mind you, but it may not be the best choice for a 2009 laptop. Anything that's at most 10 years old though I'd expect to just work honestly, maybe with minimal tinkering. -
What makes SUsE so good for you?
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The kind of people who would install Linux on their PC are the same people who'll reinstall Windows to remove all the bloat manufacturers put on their laptops by default.
Whether or not the basics work well enough to go scavenge for drivers is irrelevant. The fact that I have to do it means it's no better than modern Linux in that regard. It'll boot and in 90% of cases it'll just work, when it doesn't you'll need to install some drivers.
Why is what you're saying about Linux any different from what I'm saying about windows? Once you get to network it's straightforward and a non issue.
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Why is what you're saying about Linux any different from what I'm saying about windows? Once you get to network it's straightforward and a non issue.
Right, that's exactly my point. There's no argument to be made about Linux "not being ready" in terms of hardware support because in the worst case scenario it's not any worse than Windows, and those worst case scenarios are few and far between.
Now, in terms of software parity, sure. There's quite a bit of stuff that won't run on Wine yet and doesn't have alternatives, but this discussion was purely about hardware support and that's solid nowadays.
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Yeah when I see people say that gaming on Linux "isn't there yet" I have to wonder how long it's been since they've tried. And people who install Windows on their Steam Deck? Don't get it.
people who install Windows on their Steam Deck?
I see this way too often, nearly half of the 2nd hand Decks sold here have Windows
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Mac os is pretty bad with that bullshit too
I had to set up an app on Wine + macOS, the app spawns bg processes that have a window (on Wine, not on Windows) for some reason and each time that happens the main window app loses focus. Couldn't solve it. On Linux + Plasma Wayland the problem is inverse ie. even the main window doesn't have an icon on taskbar, if you minimize it you can restore with only Alt + Tab.
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Level1tech was reviewing the Ryzen 9950X/9900X and he noted how performance on Windows was wildly inconsistent depending on peculiar settings such as sidestepping security features and marking apps to run as administrator (aka also sidestepping windows security features) yet on Linux you can get better performance via Proton OOTB.
Linux has its quirks too but people kid themselves when they convince themselves that the dozens of weird tasks and apps and tweaks they make to Windows are "plug and play" compared to Linux, which in my experience has been way less tweaking.
The main tweaks I've done on linux usually include installing ROG-control-center (optional laptop faff) or cryotweaks on Steamdeck (which just sets some sensible options already enabled on most distros)
Now imagine Linux with
mitigations=off -
Wifi works great on every distro I tried
BCM4360 doesn't work reliably for me even to this day
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Now imagine Linux with
mitigations=offThat's the thing, though. I don't have to turn off mitigations on Linux. And I don't even think it's possible to disable the very same mitigations in Windows - Windows itself is just a super inconsistent platform for software benchmarking.
In fact, whenever I've found benchmarks it's not that much of a benefit, especially as the mitigations get more optimised with time.
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FYI: Recall is delayed and will only work on specific arm computers anyway. So you weren't in at any immediate risk.
Not arguing against installing Linux though. That's great!will only work on specific arm computers anyway.
For now.
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I've been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I've installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn't even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I've been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was... worse, for some reason. The "autodetect" in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don't even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it's currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic "tutorial". After going out of the building, game crashed again. I'm going to play again, this time under Linux.
I've had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it's bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the "just works" solution. But it's not "just works". Two days was all it took for me to realize that I'll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It's so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
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