Windows doesn't "just work"
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I pity you. I can think of perhaps 2 people I've ever known that I hate. You hate someone who irritates you on social media. You must live a sad, lonely little life.
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Yeah, I am very familiar with Debian on servers. It works great on servers. Have experienced with all kinds of stability stages regarding Debian.
However, Desktop Debian usually does not work. Then I switch to the one, which should work the easiest, so Ubuntu or some derivative. And this usually still needs tons of troubleshooting over hours to make it work to a minimum standard...
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Historically, yeah. Nowadays (as in the last 2-3 years) I don't really see many issues. It's fairly solid in my experience.
And let's be honest, Windows is a nightmare as well on many laptops. If you wipe them and start from scratch, there is a non zero chance that you'll have to source like half the drivers manually.
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Everything Debian based is an absolute clusterfuck in my experience. I mainly use Fedora or Arch, never had a problem with them.
Every single time I've tried using anything Debian based it's been a shitshow. Maybe that's the source of your issues. -
Have you tried anything not Debian based?
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Well, a very long time ago, I tried plenty of distributions on old hardware and that worked enough, so I could at least boot. But yeah, older hardware was always easier for Linux.
At some point I switched to the ones, which are most likely to succeed. Ubuntu is the biggest one out there and should work the best, with the most support and acceptance across the globe.
If not even Ubuntu works on those devices, then what will work, out of the box?
Besides, Ubuntu has already diverted enough from Debian, that I wouldn't really put them in the same basket, at all, anymore...
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I don't know, maybe. But I don't wanna set up something as rare as Fedora or manual as Arch for some older people, who just wanna do basic stuff. I don't wanna support advanced setups like that. Helping them with some Ubuntu stuff is already enough.
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Thank you for your pity, I shall bask in your magnanimity henceforth, oh superior one. Thou hast no equal on this space rock.
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Yep exactly, since when do we need a driver for the nvme controller
at least on Linux it works out of the box.
Apps on windows do break the system to some extent by using resources. As a developer I think that KISS is a paramount principle and waste is bad. Account = waste, unneeded 3d viewer = waste, notepad with subscription ad = uber waste. -
Oh, don't get me started on Windows issues. Lol. But the only reason we use Windows at work is for Office, otherwise Tue CAD software has a Linux version yet runs better.
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To get to a working state you're very likely to be fine. They're all using Intel wifi and some elan touchpad, so the basics work well enough to bootstrap up to your vendors website.
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The Windows 24H2 update broke my Bluetooth audio, the sound is completely messed up and makes the system lag a bit. Uninstalled the update, Bluetooth works. The update automatically installed itself again after a few weeks and broke it again but I can no longer uninstall it for some reason.
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The kind of people who would install Linux on their PC are the same people who'll reinstall Windows to remove all the bloat manufacturers put on their laptops by default.
Whether or not the basics work well enough to go scavenge for drivers is irrelevant. The fact that I have to do it means it's no better than modern Linux in that regard. It'll boot and in 90% of cases it'll just work, when it doesn't you'll need to install some drivers.
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I've found it to be just the opposite. I've had so many more issues on Ubuntu and Debian derivatives than any other distro out there. Both in terms of hardware support and stability, ironically.
Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better, otherwise Windows would be good.
aptis atrocious and will nuke your system every once in a while if you're not careful when installing even the most trivial packages.- Snaps are objectively worse than any other packaging format.
- The software is never up to date and you have to go scavenge for drivers and updated kernels otherwise stuff is just broken.
There are much greener pastures out there, even if a little more niche.
Arch if for tinkerers, no doubt, but Fedora is just as simple to use as Ubuntu. The support is great since it's backed by Red Hat and has a sizeable following. I never had issues finding what I was looking for. The only caveat is that it's for newer hardware; not cutting edge mind you, but it may not be the best choice for a 2009 laptop. Anything that's at most 10 years old though I'd expect to just work honestly, maybe with minimal tinkering. -
Why is what you're saying about Linux any different from what I'm saying about windows? Once you get to network it's straightforward and a non issue.
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Right, that's exactly my point. There's no argument to be made about Linux "not being ready" in terms of hardware support because in the worst case scenario it's not any worse than Windows, and those worst case scenarios are few and far between.
Now, in terms of software parity, sure. There's quite a bit of stuff that won't run on Wine yet and doesn't have alternatives, but this discussion was purely about hardware support and that's solid nowadays.
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people who install Windows on their Steam Deck?
I see this way too often, nearly half of the 2nd hand Decks sold here have Windows
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I had to set up an app on Wine + macOS, the app spawns bg processes that have a window (on Wine, not on Windows) for some reason and each time that happens the main window app loses focus. Couldn't solve it. On Linux + Plasma Wayland the problem is inverse ie. even the main window doesn't have an icon on taskbar, if you minimize it you can restore with only Alt + Tab.